Reason808
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Reason808
ParticipantThx.
ParticipantWell the recent blog post on this said early attempts at VBR were dodgy but are now better. Hard to know when things were encoded. Most likely the old catalog stuff was mass encoded for iTunes and Amazon years ago and probably using older technology. I used to work at big media websites and mass digitizations like this were usually outsourced to a variety of smaller companies.
I’m sure iTunes/Amazon VBR’s are better than the semi-legit Russian mp3 sites, but they may not have the extensive back catalog the Russians ones do. Amazon was definitely missing a lot of old YMO tracks.
If there’s another legit source for 80s/90s dance tracks it’d be good to know. A Beatport for old dance music would be great. And yes, I might be getting a little to anal-retentive here. 🙂
ParticipantJust thought of something. Could VBR encoding affect the beatgrid?
The technology clusters data in bursts around the “busy” parts of an mp3.
I’m no expert, but it seems possible that the encoding process could introduce subtle tempo shifting during these bursts. The general consumer wouldn’t notice it but DJ’s would.Steelo (or anybody else) have experience or knowledge about this?
I don’t wanna drop $300+ USD updating my collection with a format that might be creating drift.
Amazon.com encodes all its mp3s with VBR. They’re the biggest source of legit mp3s I know of besides iTunes.ParticipantProbably right on getting legit mp3s, but its not always possible. Supposedly everything’s on the internet, but I’m finding many of my old favorites and b-sides aren’t – certainly not at 320bps. And frankly, some of these obscurities are not worth the effort, but are nice to have for completeness. But I need to dig deeper beyond the four main stores I search. Happy to hear the early reports on 2.5 are good.
ParticipantI’m willing to bet if you get the original CDs or purchased the MP3 legally, they would be fine.
Actually, not always. My ETBG example in my OP was from the general release CD single, and I’ve had drift from other rips of my purchased CD tracks. However, I did my CD rips years ago and wasn’t careful, maybe that affected the beatgrid. However, my cue work on this section of my collection yields conflicting results. My “Bimbo” example cited above was also part of the poorly ripped batch of CDs I purchased, but it has a perfect beatgrid.
Have you specifically found an improvement in beatgrid drift as opposed to audio quality when you repurchased an mp3?
As I understand it, crappy mp3s can still have perfect beatgrids. Even if the audio is terrible, the sync can be perfect.
ParticipantThanks for the replies guys. Good to know beat detection in 2.5 is better.
I’ll upgrade after I DJ a party this weekend 🙂Has anybody seen beatgrid drift go away when they bought or found another mp3 of the same exact track?
I’d like to know before I buy a bunch of ‘catch up’ mp3s.For what its worth, I’ve been adding cue points to old Yello songs this week.
It illustrates this problem perfectly:- I Love You (extended mix) / 3rd album, 1983 — Beat Grid Drift
- Vicious Games (extended mix) / 4th album, 1985 — Locked on!
. . . . Okay so their production improved with time, right? Wrong!
- Bimbo (album version) / 1st album, 1980 — Locked On!
ParticipantYeah better beat grids from NI would be great, but I’m not holding my breath. Supposedly the beat detection is better in the new version.
I suspect that slight wobble or mechanical drift from a turntable could be the culprit for vinyl rips.
I’m wondering if the quality of the MP3 affects drift, seems unlikely though.
I’m hoping there’s an engineer in these forums who can weigh in.ParticipantEven though I love the sync button, manual beat matching still matters.:
- Beatgrids aren’t perfect, so learning how to adjust when things go wrong is a big plus.
- Not all dance music matches a beat grid.
- In the end you have to use your ears, manual beat matching really develops your ears to hear the finer points of phrasing and timing.
#3 is the least technical. But I think it’s the most important. There’s no substitute for a DJ with a good rhythmic sense, slapping on the sync button won’t get you there.
ParticipantOkay, if anybody is still interested I found my name: DJ Homei
“Homei” means good taste in Cantonese. Also: “tasty” and “delicious”
It sounds like “Homey” in English and there’s no dirty connotations according to my girlfriend and other locals. I’m gonna set up my online stuff next, wheee!ParticipantDangerous Reason, I like that! I wish lei yau had an english meaning too.
I still want to hold out for an English/Chinese double meaning – but that’s awesome thanks Fitzfunk.Today I thought DJ Oolong was the way to go. English speakers know the word plus it means “Black Dragon.” Then my girlfriend told me it also means stupid. Doh!
ParticipantHey guys thanks for the suggestions, my girlfriend only recognized “DJ Da wei” 😉 She’s fluent in Mandrin, but doesn’t know all the slang. Could you guys translate?
One cool discovery I found was “Sum” which means both Deep and Heart in Cantonese, but in English it also sounds like Some and Sum (Total). That’s a quadruple hit! So a few more words like that and I’d be in business.
I could probably go to Cantonese language learning site – but I’d probably get all sorts of corny suggestions.
@Dayvue: I’d prefer Cantonese, as I’m Hong Kong based. I also hear it has a lot more colorful slang, too.
@ChrisCollins: I’m familiar with the “Nova” story. That’s why I took my time finding a Chinese name. A lot of “Asian” tattoos read like Chinglish to native speakers. My girlfriend saw a photo of a bouncer with a Chinese character that only little girls used!
But keep the ideas flowing. Your suggestions really give me new ideas.
ParticipantThere’s probably tutes on acapellas out there somewhere. I would use audio software to do this ahead of time.
For a super-accurate method, I’d line up the Acapella with the original track. Add extra silence if needed to make sure the two tracks are identical lenghts, then export the prefectly matched acapella (PMA) Import the PMA to your dj software, cut and paste the BPM from the original track, set your cue points and go.
If you’re just layering an accapella to drop out the chorus, you can just approximate. Acapellas don’t have a hard start, so its impossible to trainwreck with them.
ParticipantI like ETN.fm for this area of dance music. Sometimes it gets a little too tweaky for my tastes, but that might be fine for you. They might be more progressive than trance, although I think they have another station for that.
Main thing is they have a lot of good DJs spinning interesting tracks. Sometimes they have a DJ that spins corny cheezy stuff, but for the most part its good. They’re also on iTunes so you can check it out at work. Tracklists are bad, but using it in combo with Shazam has allowed me to find a bunch of interesting, obscure electronic, trance & progressive tracks.
ParticipantYou are litterly mixing a basic drum beat to a basic drum beat and then moving onto your next track.
…With todays day and age… controllers these days a lot of the time consuming work has been done.
DJs who dont really mix.
I agree with all these points. I’d go even further add that DJs who simply hit the sync button going from one drum intro to the next are little more than glorified jukeboxes in today’s auto-sync age. I’m not a beat mix purist, but if you’re going to mix this lazily, what’s the point?
4 minutes a song…which is pretty much the whole damn song.
Now I’m a little confused. Since most EDM tracks are about 6-9 minutes, that’s a pretty substantial edit.
today it seems it more about the each individual song, than back in the 90s when it was all about the mix.
I’ve noticed EDM intros have gotten much longer since the nineties. 16/32 bar intros were the norm but now 64 seems standard. The buildups are also much longer. I’m even setting my first real musical cue point 2-3 minutes into the song now and then. Maybe the lazier DJ’s are following this trend?
ParticipantThe sync button. I can mix traditional style on vinyl, but no worries about tempo drift frees my mind for more creative and ambitious mixes.
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