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  • in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2434311
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    @DJVintage I just re-read your post and realised I misunderstood your reply – I rescind my clarification 🙂

    Apologies (yes, something you don’t read often in forums!)

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2434301
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Great question and I read the same review – frankly i LOVE the look of the Oyaide cables (except the hideous green ones) and any review the justifies me buying them is alright with me, BUT – I like the look, I couldn’t tell you if they sounded different to save my life.

    Here’s the test you need to ask yourself – have you ever listened to music and suffered from “Spatially, individual images that initially seem small or smearing, vagueness, and bloat? Instability of the reproduced sound field during complex passages and dynamic peaks; instruments splashing forward, change size or location, or suffer from timbral shifts? Everything NOT staying put with solidity and tonal consistency to the point where you couldn’t play music at volume with confidence?

    Yeah me neither – in fact some of these things I am not even sure are real things – reminds me more of the kind of rubbish you hear people talking about when drinking wine and pretending to know more about it than they do.

    So my guess is, buy the cable – love the look OR save you money and buy more vinyl 😉

    P.S. for the record I use DJ Tech Tools cables as a general rule but have also used whatever junk has been in the booth and if there was a difference I couldn’t hear it!

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2434291
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Just to quickly pick up on something I also THOUGHT to be true but my reading of the USB protocol specs changed my thinking;
    in isochronous mode there is a CHECKSUM but NO re-transmit. i.e.: it’s streaming (the closest equivalent i can give is UDP vs TCP)

    As DJ Vintage correctly observed, even if the receiver (in this case say a sound card) gets a dirty packet, then it will drop that packet. So you MIGHT hear it, but WOULD you?

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2430781
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    We need to make sure the “digital is safe from bad cables” folks don’t give everyone a false sense of security.

    To be clear, I am not the world’s authority on “streaming audio over USB”, but here’s what I understand (clipped form my reading on the topic); http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio
    “USB Audio
    USB Audio uses isochronous, interrupt and control transfers. All audio data is transferred over isochronous transfers; interrupt transfers are used to relay information regarding the availability of audio clocks; control transfers are used used to set volume, request sample rates, etc.”
    Which means “I’ll send the data, digitally, along with a checksum – if what get’s there is corrupted (for example due to a dodgy cable), then I’ll drop that packet and you’ll hear ‘noise'”

    SO, what does that mean in practice? A well designed cable, that’s in spec, with say ferrite chokes and decent shielding should in principal be less “lossy” than a crappy cable that drops/corrupts packets. Each of these packets gets transferred once every 125us so I ASSUME (scary word) that one corrupt packet in a series of good ones would corrupt the same amount of audio (roughly 1/10,000th of a second).

    Assuming all the above to be true (happy for a USB protocol engineer to jump in here!), were you to get enough dropped packets in a given period of time, could you hear it? The answer would have to be yes. In most real-world situations are you likely to be capable of hearing it? Assuming you have decent (but let’s be clear, there is no such thing as PERFECT) cable, it’s unlikely you’ll notice a difference between a $25 USB cable and a $250 one. In fact I would suggest it would be hard to notice the difference between the one that came with your printer and a $250 one.

    Save your money and buy more vinyl!

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2429641
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Awesome insights! I just ordered a Rane MP2014 for my record store, but I am thinking I probably should have gone with a DJR400

    I haven’t looked at the Omni, will check it out!

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2429411
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    Agree with 1 and 3 – but 2 would be the exact opposite to my mind (unless the signal path from the sound card to the rest of the mixer was analog) – as you point out most of the mixers with built in sound cards are digital/DSP based.

    The observation is that most if not all of the boutique rotaries I’ve been looking at give the impression that they are analog based – i say “the impression” only because as you point out, some of them such as the Rane MP series give off a distinct analog vibe with their wooden side panels, but hide a very digital product beneath them.

    Other’s such as the DJR400 – well I still can’t figure out what is going on there!

    What I do like about the mixers that feature an adjustable isolator/cross-over (the technical term eludes me!) is the way your can really shape the sound to suit the track – I found this really helped bring some of the older tracks with less bottom end back to life when compared to their modern cousins.

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2426221
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    You are of course right – i was thinking of isolators not crossover, the Rane 2015’s additional controls confused me!

    My own experience with the isolators on a few (limited) mixer’s I’ve played with, i get the sense they can add a harmonic that can fatten out bottom ends and otherwise colour the sound in interesting ways. YMMV

    As for the analog vs. digital mixer piece, I was specifically referring to the difference between DSP based mixers where (if I understand correctly) the bus summing is done in software versus analog where it’s done “on the wire” as it was.

    When it comes to playing on either, i have to concur, mixing on a rotary takes some getting used to and I am not completely sure what all the fuss is about, other than giving hipsters a boner.

    Having said that, I do get a lot of people at my shop asking me to supply them with rotaries and it would be great to have options that aren’t all in the $3,000 range!

    Thanks again for replying, the nice thing about the discussion group is that it hangs around long enough to benefit many.

    in reply to: Affordable rotary mixer? #2425201
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    @DJ Vintage – the two standout features that I see on the more desirable rotary mixers are;
    1). adjustable crossover (see RANE for example)
    2). they are often analog and/or highly quality components (and hella expensive as a result)

    But before anyone points it out for me, none of either of those is guaranteed just because it’s a rotary mixer. The A&H 92R is a lovely piece of kit, but doesn’t offer an adjustable crossover (that I know of!).

    Having said that, I like the look of this little gadget primarily because of point #1 above, can’t wait for the review on DDT!

    in reply to: DJ pool to replace Beatport100? #2424981
    Paul Muller
    Participant

    The main benefit of a pool vs. iTunes and even Beatport is that you can often get access to Intro and if the need strikes instrumental and accapella versions more readily than certainly iTunes.

    Pool is pretty decent, especially for early releases. Price is crazy though unless you’re going through a bucket load of tracks. LDS (LiveDJService) is excellent, tell Benzi I sent you! 🙂

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)