emzero

softcore, post: 34442, member: 243 wrote: Ok, I think it’s time for some myth-busting (or at least, according to my opinion)

Today’s electronic music is more often than not over-limited and over-compressed. I really don’t understand all those people who suggest re-compressing and re-processing the whole recorded set. This will result in even less dynamics and less space for the mix to breath. My opinion? Unless you have incorporated live synths – drums sample triggering etc etc not only there is absolutely no need to perform any process on the mix but I’d go far enough to say it’s wrong. It ‘breaks” the “natural” volume-level flow and it results in a “poor” dynamically mix.
Furthermore, there is also a thing called “perceived loudness”. The processes invloved in most of these after-recording-improvements do NOT take acount of the perceived loundness but only the “peak” volume levels. Investigate further on the terms (perceived loudness vs loudness, peak level vs RMS level) and you will understand why this may yield unpleasant results.

Im with you, and any “sane” person who knows a thing or two about sound and psychoacoustics will also be!

Chances are the difference will also be noticed in a club too.

Keep in mind a few other things:
1. It has been scientfically discussed and analyzed that a difference lower than 1.5 – 2 dB is generally not noticed – however some people MAY consider the slightly “louder” mix to be more “quality-sound” (louder is better syndrome)

2.I advise you to not use Traktor’s autogain feature. The reason is again the very important “perceιved loudness” factor. While Traktor’s autogain looks for peaks to adjust the gain of a track, the perceived loudness of a full-on, overcompressed Umek techno track will sound extremely louder than a minimalistic, hypotonic Steven Campodonico track even if Umek’s “peaks” are lower. In a hypothetic scenario where one’s track peaks are lower than the other, but the first one is over-compressed or produced with lots of elements-sounds, Traktor’s autogain will falsely raise the gain on the first track, making things worse instead of better.
Instead, get to “know” the tracks you usually play and you will soon know ways to balance the “perceived loudness” which many times may also incorporate a boost of low or high frequency instead of just a simple gain change.

Thank you for your complete answer, really helpful =)

Regarding the gain differences, they were just about 1.5 dB different so I guess it’s not really that much.

And about Traktor’s autogain, most of the time I find it’s pretty accurate, but I won’t blindly trust it. I’ll leave it enabled but will adjust the channel gain before throwing the new track. So that way I get used to check the levels of both tracks before the transition.

And I’ll definitely read about peak and RMS level.

Thanks!

rjwhite41, post: 34403, member: 2565 wrote: Not quite as noticeable and quickly forgiven in clubs (assuming there’s no distortion). Very difficult to keep it exactly the same throughout. I would advise that you stop you using autogain and start doing it manually yourself however. Autogain isn’t that accurate and degrades your sound quality slightly. I find that I’m much more accurate manually doing than Traktor is.

As far as intentionally doing it. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it is a slow progression. In a club you want it louder at the peak part of the night and it has to be louder if there are more bodies in the venue sucking up the sound.

One personal question, what kind of psy do you mix? I do Hamburg style prog myself.

I find Traktor’s autogain pretty accurate most of the time. Why do you say it degrades sound quality when it just adjusting the gain like you would normally do manually? How can that degrade sound quality?

And yes, you’re right about slowly increase the volume over the night. But I think one would do that using the master volume, rather than the channel gains. The latest are supposed to be used to match the volume between the channels right?

I do mostly night full on and morning, and just a little bit of progressive.