Chuck Van Eekelen

The word never was chosen deliberately and personal. I have done it in the past and got burned. In the case I did continue with whatever it was I bought stuff for I ended up finally needing another piece of (expensive) kit after all. In the cases where I stopped I was often stuck with expensive gear that was hard to unload.
So, while some might have problems with the word never, in this case it exactly reflects my personal sentiments based on my personal experiences.

As for similar and varying scenarios, I agree that every situation is unique on it’s own. But I disagree that a common denominator for a “best-practice” could not be determined. Obviously this advice might not work out for some, but it would certainly not be the worst road to take for most.

Again, all we can do is give this common denominator plan to help people choose for themselves. Up to them to heed or disregard this. And whatever their choice, more power to them.

First off, let’s keep it friendly in here. We operate on the assumption that everyone is posting based on a genuine desire to help the OP. And people might sometimes make mistakes, vent personal opinions that one might not agree with. No need to get into “Have you not seen?” and such. The smiley suggests it was said in good spirits so I left the comment in there. Be aware that these kinds of reaction are often the spark that leads to flaming in fora. Something we try very hard to avoid.

That said, let me address the issue raised in the last reply to this thread.

Yes, we (the mods) have formulated a best-practiced response to one of the most asked question on these forums. We don’t operate in a vacuum, but take the experiences and sentiments of our many many members and also the vast deposit of experience here and over on the main site.

To begin with, it’s only an advice based on best-practice. Everyone is free to choose what he/she wants. Personally I will never say it is the wrong choice, as it’s not up to me to decide. I might ventilate that it would not have been my choice and support that with my motivation.

We have a list of starter controllers. It does not include the DJ Control Instinct or any of it’s (Hercules and other brands) siblings in that no-budget part of the market place. Our suggested list contains the starter models from reputable brands (Pioneer, Numark, Denon, Reloop, NI). Contrary to the DJ Control Instinct, these are relatively easy to sell and while -as with anything you buy new- they will lose value, unless you are on a fast track, they will give you about a year to a year and a half of pleasure before they really become the limiting factor. Where does that time frame from? That comes from the time we have noticed it takes the average starting DJ to fully comprehend the basic, practice them til muscle memory sets in, learns to build up collection, properly prep tracks and such. For those that ARE interested in playing out, these controllers will also allow for first public performances, be it house & pool parties, weekday night at the local pub or a class event. These controllers will do all this without confusing buttons and options (we have had many DJs say they were either confused and thus distracted from the basics and/or too tempted to play with these features that they didn’t focus on the basics), but with all the necessary tools to do all that is needed when you just stepped onto the path to DJ-hood.

We also have a step-plan to picking your controller. The choice of the actual controller doesn’t even enter the equation until step 4 and 5. First step is to determine your workflow.

This is a hard one as most starters don’t have one. This is why we say your (intended) workflow. Now you can start naming the things you think you would like to do as a DJ. Play out or not, be a remixer, a club DJ or a wedding jock. What kind of music/genres do you imagine you want to be playing. Open format, narrow genre DJ-ing, underground, general club work including TOP 40 stuff. OP shows he has some ideas of what he would like to do. With the messing around with tracks (i.e. live remixing) he would need both software that supports this and a controller with -at the very least- as set of performance pads.

Once that is out of the way we advice you to start looking at software. Based on the what you came up with around workflow, you should be able to come up with some points that you can take away in picking the right software. This is not unimportant, as switching software later on isn’t something you want to do (too often). Picking software first is of importance as it will have impact on available options for a controller. If you want Rekordbox you could opt for R-series controllers, but if you are not entirely sure about rekordbox you might still want to get the S-series as they will support Rekordbox but still give you the option to switch to other software if Rekordbox after a while doesn’t suit your needs after all. If you pick Traktor, especially as a beginner, your only real choice is an NI controller.

Then we say, set a budget. It is VERY easy to be tempted by features, shine buttons and flashing lights! Setting a budget and sticking to it also helps avoiding to fall into the trap of spending more money than you intended/should.
Don’t forget that when you start DJ-ing, you don’t just need the controller. Often you will need to upgrade software, you need monitor speakers, good headphones, music!, perhaps a table/booth, cables and such. So buying a 300 dollar controller can easily run into a 1.000 dollar budget for all of it. If you buy an 800 dollar controller instead, you are left with no room to buy all the other essentials.

The rest is known or can be found in many previous posts.

We also say that buying your first starter controller used is often a feasible option, lowering the chance of losing money on the resale end of things.

Especially highly specific controllers (think Stems, think no jogs, think Traktor only) should not be bought lightly but only after knowing (based on personal experience) that is the road you want to take. Starting with a (used) S2, will give you all that within the span of that year/year and a half, without breaking the bank. And don’t be mistaken, sellign a used S8 is not very easy either. It’s highly specific and as such will only appeal to a smaller group of people.

If it turns out you don’t like DJ-ing that much after all, your initial money spent won’t be so crazy.
If it turns out you picked the wrong software and need to change but that also means changing your controller, that’s another risk that is smaller if you went with a starter controller.
If, for some reason there are still features you miss or that you don’t use on your expensive controller, you might still want to change things around.

We think that the risks of staying on the budget-safe side of things outweigh those of going high-end controller right away. Not only expressed in money, but also in learning the basics (and only the basics) and avoiding getting lost in things before you are ready.

Both Terry and I have helped quite a few young DJs get started. And all of them can get going on their starter controller and play their first gigs. They all agree that by the time they are truly ready to move on (i.e. wanting better, bigger tools) they have more experience, a better sense of wants/needs and workflow and are generally in a better place to pick their next controller themselves.

Wall of text as always. We welcome differing opinions and all opinions should be available to the OP.
I did feel it necessary to explain a little (or lot) more about the background of our step-plan and our suggested starter controller list.

At the end of the day it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to give a right advice to another DJ. All we can share is our best-practices, personal experiences and opinions. The choice is still up to the one spending the money.

Try using 4 tops 15″ and 2 18″ subs. Put the tops on the four corners of the dance area, preferably slightly higher and angled downward a bit (speaker stand adapters exist for just this purpose). All aimed roughly towards the center of the dance area.

Have the rental company deliver and pick up. Try to get discount. I usually manage to get between 10-25% discount, or get the insurance fee and transport free. It’s normally negotiable. Prices in their price list is what they would normally charge your end-customer and they understand you can’t charge more than that, but still would like to make some money.

Welcome to the forums. Plenty of info around to help you along.

Enjoy your time here!

Sound is A+. I will be trading my Mackie HD-set (2x 12″tops with 1x 18″ subs) in for them somewhere in the (hopefully) near future. I’d get the largest set, but that is just me.

If you play regularly for 150-200 people I would say they will cope, but don’t expect miracle (i.e. don’t be doing 110dB banger parties with them). Personally I aim at being ready for up to 150 people, mostly having 100-150 to cater too. I have some extra Mackie SRM450s that I can add for a 4-top system, which will give me the extra I need for 200 people. Or I rent. Depends a bit on the bass-requirements. For a wedding, my single 18″ is well up to the challenge. For a student night where they want bass-heavy stuff played loud, it’s a close call and I’ll just rent a 2x 18″ + 4x 15″ set.

Clearly the Evox is way out of your budget range as well. At 1300 euro a piece here (and you do need two) that is 2,5 times your budget easy.

The MAUI is better suitable for DJ work, but … at 999,00 each (and you need two) they are about 3 times as expensive as a Dave 15G3 systems (of which you need only one) for 660,00.

What you get is indeed array top end, D-class amp of 1.000W RMS per set (so 2.000W total for two) and integrated top stand as opposed to a double A/B-class amp of 700W RMS total, regular 8″/1″ top and no stands (available separately).

So, comparing apples and oranges. With your budget the MAUI is out of range (a long way).

There are a lot of manufacturers today that make affordable 2.1 systems that are (semi)compact and provide good price/performance reputation. So some more research might be necessary.

General rule of thumb to calculate needed power is:
* indoor = 5W RMS per person. For 200 persons that would put you at a minimum of 1.000 RMS. The Dave is too small. The Dave 18G3 would fit, but is not exactly compact and portable.
* outdoor = 10W RMS per person, i.e. 2.000W RMS total.
Double these numbers if you plan on going happy hardcore full steam …

External power is rated at 5V-500mA, which also happens to be the maximum power a USB 2.x port should be able to deliver. Unfortunately it isn’t always as simple as that. Easiest way would be to do a simple test. Just add the adapter and listen if it’s louder.

Also it depends on what outputs you use. Especially if you are taking RCA outputs and running them (through adapters or adapter cables) to XLR inputs. RCA is -officially- a lot lower in output than XLR/Jack (balanced).

Apart from that, some sound cards/controllers are quieter than others. I had a Numark iDJ Pro which was WAY loud for example. Louder than any other controller I ever owned. I don’t have hands-on experience wit the VCI 300 though, so hopefully one our readers does and can chime in here.

I actually have the American DJ (better yet I actually have two, one shortened so I have to sizes), but have moved on and they are on the list to get rid of to make room in my storage. I know the bottom parts are complete and at least on light bridge. I could ship it to the US I guess, not sure what the import rules would be though. And you’d have to pay for shipping of course. Best would be for the receiving party to arrange shipping and pickup at my place. I can package it for transatlantic transport I suppose.