NORRIS Sydnor

Chuck van Eekelen, post: 41585, member: 2756 wrote: Hey Syd,

My tip: send an email to the secretaries of the various corporate offices and ask them to give you a top 10-20 of favorite stuff in their country (up to you to limit it to certain genres of course).

No need to become proficient in international music in a hurry for one gig (unless you really enjoy the experience and don’t mind to spend the time needed).

Greetinx,
C.

Chuck, I don’t have the inside track to send an email to the secretaries. I have no affiliation with the company other than being hired for there event.

I don’t plan to become proficient in International music. I just want to be able to play a song or two from the different regions. I was told that they would have folk of the following: African American, Hispanic, a few Vietnamese, Cambodian, and eastern Europeans

What to do?

Chuck van Eekelen, post: 40319, member: 2756 wrote: Pretty hard to confuse me, “many have tried in vain” LOL.

Glad to hear you like the mixer. Let’s see about your questions.

I have to say I didn’t pay TOO much attention to the inputs. Besides I have worked with a MG166CX for a long time and it has balanced TSR on more channels (obviously because it is a 16-channel mixer :)). Having said that, when I hook up my stuff like CD(J) players or something, I’ll use RCA leads 9 out of 10 times. I will have the CD player sit very close to the mixer and a 4-5 ft RCA lead (of good quality) will do the trick. Never had a problem. Don’t forget that most line sources, including keyboards, CD players and many lower end DJ mixers don’t even have balanced outputs.

Here is the thing about balanced vs unbalanced.

Balanced cables were “invented” for microphone signals. A typical microphone is somewhere around -30dBu. This is a voltage of 0,010Volt (or 10mV = milliVolt). Let’s say it picks up a 5mV noise along the way (killers in a venue setting are lighting systems (dimmer packs!)). At the end of the cable (forgetting cable resistance and resulting signal loss for a moment) you will have a 15mV signal with a sound to noise ration of 1:2. A 15mV signal needs to be amplified a lot by the mic preamp to a suitable level (0dB) to pass through to the main outputs. But, since you start with a 1:2 ratio that is what you have at 0dB too! A very audible noise on your signal.

Now imagine running the same cable but using a line level signal. This is +4dBu on professional gear. And translates, roughly, to 1.25V or 1,250mV. A whopping 125 times higher than a mic signal. Introduce the same 5mV noise picked up along the way. What arrives at your mixer is a 1,255mV signal that needs no further amplification (as it already is where it is supposed to be) with a sound to noise ratio of 1:250. Chances are that there isn’t a problem with that.

On your master outs you want balanced going into your amps for several reasons that are beyond the scope of this story. Here hum for example is a much bigger problem than signal deterioration.

So, if you have short cable lengths (as in your situation) going from your S4 into your mixer, I would feel very comfortable suggesting using the cables I advised last time (the balanced ones) from XLR to TRS and use them to plug in on the stereo channel TS plugs. In about 95% of the cases this will work noise-free and keeps your mic channels free for mics. Even hooking the S4 up with a good quality 6ft RCA-RCA cable to the 7/8 or 9/10 channels is feasible. The only drawback here is that your S4 outputs +4dBu , as far as I was able to find out, and RCA inputs are rated for -10dBu (which is the typical output level of things like mp3 players, iPad and such). And since those channels don’t have an input gain (like 1-6), you will be coming in very “hot”. Rather use the jacks :).
You could get a couple of extra XLR to TS cables if that makes you feel more comfortable.

In the rare case that you get problems and depending on how many mics you’d need, you could use channel 1 and 2 for Left and Right outputs from your S4 (remember XLR to TSR, don’t go XLR into XLR because of the preamp) and still have channels 3 and 4 left for two mics and channels 5 thru 10 for additional sources like the iPad/MP3 player/CD player. If you want to free up a third mic channel, you could indeed set the S4 to mono and run one XLR to TRS lead to channel 1 or 2 on your mixer and use the other for your third (or 4th counting the input on your S4) mic.

There are hordes of DJs hooking up their gear with (often inferior) RCA cables of 10 ft or more that have no problems (other than perhaps running “hot”), so I wouldn’t worry too much running your balanced XLRs into your TS mixer inputs. Plug it in, see what happens and know what alternative route you could take. You have plenty of options with this mixer which is a good thing.

I prefer using stereo channels when I can, only have one fader or level knob to contend with instead of two :).

Just stay away from any dimmer packs.

Hope that helps & greetinx,
C.

This all made senses after drinking a hot cup of coffee! lol

Actually, the S4 uses TRS for its Balanced Output (They also have RCA for UnBalanced Out as well). For my weekly gig, I really don’t need a Mic plugged into the mixer. So, I will run the S4 in MONO mode into CH1 or CH2 on the mixer to keep the Connection Balanced. Or, whenever I want to run in Stereo I will use CH3&4 or CH5&6 (So I can use the GAIN Control) using my TRS Out on S4 into the TS on these Channels (It just wont be Balanced anymore right?). Or as you suggested, I can just run the RCA into the Mixer on CH7&8 or CH9&10.

I guess the great thing now is that I have a few options.

The last thing that I keep questioning is Stereo vs Mono. I’ve read people prefer one or the other for different reasons. I’m thinking Stereo really only makes sense if both of my speakers are playing out to the same direction and they are parallel to each other. At the Bar I play at, I have one speaker near me and the other one is out closer to the dining area. So, I’ve been playing out in MONO in this location. Would you say that’s the right thing to do?

Chuck van Eekelen, post: 40239, member: 2756 wrote: Hey Big Syd,

That is dirt cheap 🙂 … the price in euro’s I gave you comes from the cheapest address here. Life’s not fair! LOL

Might want to take a look at this review (there are more, just google): http://en.audiofanzine.com/analog-mixer/yamaha/mg-c-series-mg102c/user_reviews/r.107758.html

The overall consensus is that is lightweight, compact and very versatile, while offering great sound quality (again, within it’s price range). I think it said in the review “not the best mixer in the world, but definitely the best mixer in it’t price range).

It’s been around since 2009 I think and there is a newer, slightly more expensive 8-channel version that has one digital FX channel. But with what you are doing I’d rather have the extra stereo channel. The good thing with analogue equipment like this is that it doesn’t age like digital. A 3 year old controller is considered almost ancient today. An analogue PA mixer can be 10 years old and the design still sold.

Good luck with your choice and the manual & greetinx,
C.

My apologies. After further investigation, that price was for a “factory” refurbished unit. However, can still get the unit brand new online and at Guitar Center locally for between $95-$99 US. Still a great deal.

Tell me this, Do they not use XLR outs on units this small? Will I lose anything by connecting my 1/4inch TRS to XLR Cable to my XLR Cables?

I’m going to pickup the Mixer this evening or in the morning from Guitar Center. I will let you know how it works for me after my weekly gig this Friday.

Also, I will probably pickup the Active Sub soon. I just signed a gig for next month which is at a venue which I’m not sure my 2 15″ Mackies will suffice. I’m thinking the Sub will give me the extra sound I need for the gig.

Chuck van Eekelen, post: 40218, member: 2756 wrote: Hi BigSyd,

Quite a few questions. Let me try tackling them in chronological order.

I can see why the 502 doesn’t fit your needs. Only 1 mic input for one. Unbalanced (TS – not TSR) Jack master out. I am still a bit in awe of people having a nice S4 controller (quite an investment) and a good heavy duty set of active speakers and then decide to spend no more than 4o-50 bucks on a mixer that ALL their sound has to go through. Mixer are quite a bit like PA’s, you get what you pay for. And I can safely say that having such a very low end mixer in your sound line does nothing to enhance the quality of your PA (rather the opposite). And what the heck is a “British EQ”???

My point is you might want to rethink your strategy and budget for your next mixer a bit. Yamaha has the MG-series. Awesome price/performance ratio. You should look at the MG102C. It has 4 true mic channels, two of which have compression on board. Balanced outputs (of course) in TSR. Both channel 7/8 and 9/10 are geared towards line level stereo inputs (your S4 on one, iPad/iPod on the other) and you can even abuse the 2TR input if you want to hook up an extra MP3 player or something. Recording outputs of course to get those great performances on tape. The quality of the mic preamps is great (in it’s price range) and so is it’s overall sound. Only drawback for you might be that there are no faders, just rotary level knobs. Keeps the footprint down though and it doesn’t sound like you’d be “fader-riding” this thing all night anyway.

Price is around 130 euro’s, so I am guessing about 175-180 dollars. There is lots of stuff around in the 100-150 dollar range, but not a whole lot I’d recommend. Lot of pro sound guys will travel with a Yamaha MG board if they need something light and portable. That is for a reason. And I’d dump the Behringer while it is still new and you might get a few bucks for it.

Active sub(s). Not sure if you are contemplating the Mackie SRM1801 to go with the Thumps, but if you are, they come with built in crossover. Hooking up both your master channels to the SRM1801 and then run high pass signal to both your Thumps. Most active subs from respectable brands will have a similar way to connect things. Look out for it, because if it has a built-in crossover at least you know it is tuned right for the sub and you don’t have to spend extra money on a seperate one. And it is one less piece of kit to haul around.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and greetinx,
C.

Chuck, Thank you very much for the very informative reply.

To be honest, I’ve been doing just fine without a mixer. I was running a Balanced signal directly from my S4 to the Mackie Thumps. I’ve been using the 1 or 2 of the 4 Tracks that the S4 has as LIVE INPUT Decks for my Mic that I use while I DJ and I sometimes use a deck for my Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tab or my Android Phone. However, the Tablet and the Phone don’t put out a very loud signal and I sometimes need an additional mic or two for Stand-Up Comedy. That is when the mixer comes in handy for me. Then, I can add another wired Mic or even add a Wireless Mic if need be. The Mixer would also allow me to play the Tablet/Phone independant of the S4. I DJ and Host a weekly Happy Hour at a Hotel Lobby Bar/Restaurant/Lounge and lately, I’ll go setup the speakers and the mixer and the tablet and play some tunes through Spotify until I’m finished setting up my DJ setup or until I’m finished mingling and being a good host. It also frees up one of my decks on the S4 to be used as a Remix/Sample deck again. So, 8-10 Channels may be overkill.

However, if you consider it to be a very critical piece of equipment in the mix, perhaps I’ll invest a little more and have room for expansion. I will definitely take a look at the Yamaha you mentioned.

Also, yes, I did look at the Mackie Sub you mentioned. I will probably start with one Sub for now and add another as the need arises.

And yes you are correct. The Behringer does have TS. I need to read up on the TS vs TSR. And yes, it beats me with what the Hell is British EQ? lol

Thank you once again for your reply.