DrMindbender

Hmm, I see what you’re saying…the MC6000 does what I’m asking, except that the decks controlled by the controller would be mixing/eq-ing in the DAW/DJ software, then the mixed signal outputs at the main output.

I do recognize that I’m a little hung up on mixing the virtual decks in analog (or at least with the headroom of separate audio pathways after the DJ software)…but I am from a band-recording background, and I understand routing and summing, etc. I may want to use Ableton as well, perhaps alongside Serato SL…

I’m experienced with adding up latency from each d/a or a/d because I’ve got a pretty complicated setup between the DJ mixer output and the speakers on my primary setup (out from the software; d/a to the DJ mixer; (a/d and d/a if the mixer is internally digital); a/d from the DJ mixer into my adat box; adat soundcard latency in and out of the adat pci card (luckily it is stable at 64 samples); adat to a Yamaha DME32 for final processing (matrix mixer, compressor, crossover); AES out to the final d/a box, to the speakers…so I’ve been working on a separate solution to open up decks and channels using the adat soundcard (32mono-in/32mono-out)…

I am under no illusion that the controller is an audio source; the soundcard is the source. But I know that the internal summing and limiting that are included in a DJ software package are not going to sound as good as in Ableton, using $500 VST compressors and etc…and nothing quite beats the feel and sound of a proper “channel strip” as it is known in the recording industry (and the digital summing done by high-end digital recording mixers can’t be replicated for cheap)…the only thing preventing me from using my Yamaha AW4416 for a mixer is the PFL feature found on DJ mixers.

I tried a sound comparison myself: I ran DEX and VDJ in summing mode on my recording PC, sending mixed signal to my adat ch 1/2…sounded okay but adding one track to another caused the level of the original track to drop (like a soft crossfader curve) to “fit” the summed signal. Then I sent each deck to it’s own set of channels, 1/2 and 3/4…the total output was the uncompressed “sum” made by my DME32 and (expectedly) was a bit louder…that is the headroom I’m trying to preserve. Then I can compress the signal out of the DJ mixer with a compressor that I can choose and set myself.

The other thing I’ve noticed is when using Serato SL, I use the Serato efx for the filters…occasionally there is a tiny lag or screen hang that also affects midi input, and the filter does not “react” properly, and there is the tiniest bit of lag, which can result in the “1” beat kick to still be partially cut when it drops! I like the sound of the software filters but don’t totally trust them to react instantly; they’re good when I use them more slowly.

After reading the info here (THANKS GUYS!) I feel like mating the components together in an “all in one” box will be limiting for upgrades and expansion…the discovery of a cheap xone:2d pushed me in the direction of separating the mixer from the soundcard; I can more easily ignore the controller section of the 2d but the 8-in/10-out plus s/pdif is a grand soundcard all by itself, not to mention that it has 2 phono preamps.

Now the question I face is…what will happen if I put a splitter on the turntable output to connect to the 2d AND the phono inputs so I can get “unpowered” analog operation of the DJ setup without re-wiring…I think this is the largest advantage to the soundcard being internal to the DJ mixer itself (there is no hard-wire thruput of signal inside the xone:2d)…I still require the ability of someone inexperienced with the setup to simply step up with (non timecode) vinyl and start dropping tunes. It will be interesting to see how much I notice the control latency as the analog vinyl signal goes in/out of the laptop…however the installation location of the setup I’m trying to build will not be in the same room as my recording PC and overcomplicated sound system, it will be laptop, DJ mixer, analog x-over/multiband compressor, amps…

wow, this is boggling. I am relieved to have purchased the first component so I can start playing and stop combing user manuals and e-bay auctions!!! now I get to fiddle with midi mapping…

I think I’ll add a xone:1d (I don’t need super good jogs) for the other deck…and will start looking for a dumb mixer for 4 channel operation…but the Denon x1600 sure looks fun!

Wow…I took a good look at the Denon 6000 controller manual…and I find out that it only does 2 stereo channels out, max 🙁 !

So I have actually found no controller that has 4 stereo outs and 2 stereo ins for DVS simultaneously…I have heard much about track mixing internally and EVERYBODY says that the summed signal gets squished by an invisible internal limiter (which is perfectly understandable; good ears can hear a squished signal, but everybody can hear distortion).

BUT…I have discovered the (now out of print) A&H Xone:D2 which seems to have the correct audio interface, with a much more limited control surface. That just makes it so if I can afford an x1600 I’ll have an extra interface…but the price I found a D2 for makes that okay…or now maybe I’ll start looking for a good old fashioned “dumb” mixer…

I am kind of freaked out that something that seems so simple to me is actually taking me months of hardcore research just to find the correct capability set: Hardware summing/analogue mixer, 4 stereo deck outputs, at least 2 phono DVS input capability…and a pair of controllers to get all 4 decks “in the mix” simultaneously…I can’t imagine having 2 decks on the speakers but “flipping” back and forth on a single controller. No way!

anybody?? Beuller? Beuller? McFly? McFly?

Is there anyone out there that is doing what I am proposing here? 4 software tracks, hardware mix, at least 2 channels on DVS…able to play vinyl without a computer connected. What are you playing on?? expense is no matter for purposes of info and discussion…Xone 3D/4D?? Pioneer??