Why do people…

There are a lot of reasons why CDJ’s are better than controllers.
Here are some of the arguments:

1: A modern CDJ can play CD Waw, CD MP3, USB sticks, HDD, MIDI and DVS. (you can use them as controllers as well)
A controller can only controll software.

2: A laptop is not a pro DJ gear but a home/office product that is not build for a club enviroment like a CDJ is.
That can cause problems. CDJs are buit for that enviroment.

3: DJs using laptops tend to look mora at the screen then on the dancefloor.
A DJ is an entertainer and should not be looking at a screen hiding from the crowd…..

4: There is a Sync button on controllers that many CDJ users considder cheating.

5: The controllers are considdered bedroom DJ gear and CDJs Pro DJ gear.

Phil Morse, post: 16890, member: 2 wrote: I respect DJ Hessler but he is a CDJ DJ so you’re getting one side of the story there. For most of his points, insert “CDJ DJs think that…” before reading them! Here are some other views:

1. CDJs are bulky and expensive.
2. CDJs when used to control DJ software are basically just Midi controllers with a bunch of extra stuff you don’t need – so why buy it?
3. CDJ DJing is different from software DJing, but it is neither better nor worse – what it is, however, is OLDER – hence today’s top DJs, who were brought up on vinyl/CDJs – will always prefer them, and they still dominate the DJ box.
4. Sync frees today’s DJs up to do other more creative stuff

Hessler has a point re laptops, although many top DJs use DVS with laptops without an issue.

Well Phil is right I am A CDJ DJ but I also have a Denon MC6000/Traktor Pro so I do think it is fair to say that I know both of the worlds.
On giggs I use my CDJs mostly because I really like the spinning platter that makes it much easier for me to work.
As I come from vinyl (so I do know that side sa well)
I respect Phils points but dissagree on all points why I feel the need to post this:

I hope that you do not take away my account for this and ban me Phill……

1 CDJs are bulky and expensive.
I feel that DJs are entertainers and shall take space so a small controller is not the way to go IMO!
There are also the Denon S1200/X120 CDJ set that takes smaller place than for example S4 and NS6
Pio CDJ350 is the same way IMO
About the expensive bit, if you look at all expences. A top of the line controller (S4 MC6000 or NS6)
Software (Traktor pro except S4) a top of the line laptop Macbook Pro 17″ i7.
Is here in Sweden more expensive than 2x Denon S3700 + X600 Mixer!
If you compare to a less then top of the line controller you must compare price to a budget CDJ as well IMO!

2 CDJs when used to control DJ software are basically just Midi controllers with a bunch of extra stuff you don’t need – so why buy it?

However you need that or not is IMO not up to Phil to decide??
I do “need” spinning platter and so do very many other DJs that still want to run Vinyl
They can eather still use vinyl with DVS or switch to Denon CDJs wich has spinning platters for example!

3 CDJ DJing is different from software DJing, but it is neither better nor worse – what it is, however, is OLDER – hence today’s top DJs, who were brought up on vinyl/CDJs – will always prefer them, and they still dominate the DJ box.

CDJs with USB is as I know it newer than software DJing NOT older and with Engine and Recordbox CDJs is as new as software. Todays CDJs are better in the way that you are not depending on a computer that is not built for clubs IMO

4 Sync frees today’s DJs up to do other more creative stuff
Sorry Phuil but Engine has the freking Sync function as well!

Have to disagree with Hessler a little here too. Controllers aren’t just for beginners or mobile dj’s. I’ve been doing this a very long time – mostly in bars and clubs, rarely mobile – and I’ve dumped most of my CD gear. I’ve still got a set of CDJ’s in flight cases if needed, but they haven’t been used in years now.

The points he is arguing aren’t really about which is more pro, his points are all about which workflow works best for *him*. I can see where he might be coming from if he wants the vinyl feel, but that is hardly the norm. Let’s be honest, if a club still provides equipment, Pioneer CDJ’s of one variety or another are pretty standard, and they offer zero similarity to vinyl – so the difference between them and a controller is not that great. The Denon that Hessler is using as a comparison (3700’s) to controllers is a unique piece of kit that fills a niche market.

I listened for years as other dj’s crapped on me for using CD’s (real dj’s use vinyl) – first Denon 2000’s, and later Pioneer 1000’s were cheating, they did all the work for you. Then came controllers, and boom, suddenly CDJ’s were a fine and dandy difficult skill to learn, it was controllers that were cheating and did all the work for you.

The point of all this? A pro grade controller (such as the MC6000 I take to all my shows) is every bit as “pro” as an equivalent CDJ. And to the laptop issue, if it’s a problem for you, buy a better laptop. They make laptops to use outdoors on construction sites – do you really think a club is harsher than that?

DJ Hessler, post: 16900, member: 537 wrote: However I feel the need to add some notes here:

Software and controllers are IMO a very good thing because you can start with a cheap controller and
a station or laptop and get started as a DJ with a limited budget.

On small clubs with limited space or at weddings/parties the software/controllers are also good because it is faster to rigg and takes smaller place (if you count out Denon S1200/x120 and Pio CDJ350/DJM350

But for Pro DJs in large clubs that has good space for CDJs I feel it is more Pro DJ to skip the laptop!

I wanted to highlight this point as a newcomer. It’s hard to get your head around what you need as a newbie, and frankly I wouldn’t know where to start if I had to buy CDJ, Mixer etc. The controller and software route is very “plug and play” and easy to comprehend.

I won’t, and can’t due to lack of experience, get into a debate about which is better because I don’t know, but it’s great that there are options – options that will make both routes evolve and improve over time.

Well, I give a damn if people start pointing fingers at me saying I was a douchebag, but in my (!) opinion all this babble about vinyl and cdjs and the widening and evolving controller market is the same debate as back the day when the first digital cameras appeared.

I still hear the “oh my god”s we will lose the feeling and you gotta’ stay true and digital is for beginners and so on…
Look where we are today: NO big camera brand (Nikon, Canon…) is producing a variety of analogue cameras, rather one or two models at best.

Same with vinyl and cdjs, they will soon be seen as dinosaurs and slowly die out.
But that’s my opinion, and I’m sure you can accept that 😉

The best thing is that althought the controller would be standard, the layout and how the thing works could change by the user. Bring laptop, overlay and cables and voilá. Everyone of course don’ t have to use it and by all means bring midifighter or similar if you want, but it would lift the controllerists world a lot closer to traditional (lol) cdj’s workflow.

I’d take CDJ2000s over a controller any day. I just can’t afford them at home.

I feel like this argument is the old school hating on the evolution of their art. People are usually wary of change.
But, the greatest performers adapt. I live in Bangkok and when Jazzy Jeff and Kentaro came out here they used DVS…Kentaro even had a midi controller for loops and cues! He is arguably one of the greatest turntablists out there and even he has embraced the evolution of the technology. Most of my friends / colleagues playing out there on the scene have embraced the digital evolution, be it by switching to DVS to save their backs or going the whole way and switching to a controller. @Todd Oddity is right… the average person in the club doesn’t care what you’re playing on…most of the proper clubs out there have an elevated booth so the crowd can’t see your decks anyway!

IMO the CDJ crowd are trying to release some of their pent up frustration on the midi controller crowd because the vinyl crowd gave them a hard time when they first came onto the scene.
Yes, making the learning curve a little less steep has allowed some Djs to enter the scene who really just sound horrible… but it has also allowed many people with great ears for good music and excellent programming (music selection) ability to play out and make a name for themselves.

All I know is that none of the clubs booking me have ever complained about me using a controller instead of their CDjs or vinyls…. No matter where I go to play I can show up, plug my kit into their mixer or soundboard and go. I never have to worry about showing up with my Serato box to find that their technics are in a rubbish state or their mixer is missing faders or knobs. I also never have to worry that my Cd is scratched or that the CDJs at the club don’t support usb…

Paying homage to you roots is important. I definitely learned to beat match an mix on DVS…but I definitely prefer the added creativity and portability of my controller.

Can’t wait for Vestax to release that 380…it looks like my next upgrade!