Ultra 2015: The Pre-mix. The shot heard around the world.
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- This topic has 7 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 12 months ago by
Jim Slaton.
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March 29, 2015 at 10:39 pm #2165171
DJ Vintage
ModeratorI think some of the comments under the youtube video were pretty accurate, albeit of a verocity that we luckily don’t know here at DDJT forums.
Apparently you can still hear the music playing from his computer/monitors while the main stack is silent. So yes, it could still have been a pre-mix, with only the main PA quitting for a bit (who knows what reason). In which case his set sounding worse to you just means it was a worse-sounding pre-mix not a result of him doing it live. But even if …
If I do something a thousand times and I know, down to the millisecond, what I want to do at any given point in my set, but I do the actual button pushing and knob-twisting live, is it still a pre-mix?
Stuff like video, light and lighting FX are often time-synced with what’s happening. That is only possible if the light guys know in advance what is coming and/or use some matter of syncing things. Pretty hard if the DJ just makes stuff up as he goes (like us regular Joes).
At the end of the day, I don’t think Tiesto or any of the great names out there does anything that wasn’t scripted well in advance. Their set, imho, are predetermined down to the beat. So, pre-mix or not, in essence it’s canned music.
There is one very big reason why this works for them and not for us, people come to see Tiesto, Hardwell, Garrix, Guetta, whoever. And they expect to get a show by the master. In these settings it is not the crowd deciding the direction, it’s the artist. And I say artist, because these guys are all producer/artists, not DJs, imho.
Deciding what is next is not on their mind, nor need they worry about that (live, obviously they think about that when building their set in advance). Tiesto will not go “oh the crowd is reacting so or so, let me play this track next”, at least I doubt if that is how it works for him.
As fore the correct terminology, anything with mix in it to me means transition of some kind or the blending of two tracks, without hurting the structural integrity of said songs. Anything with edit in it means that the structural integrity is compromised. Just my take on things of course.
So a pre-mixed set would have regular tracks with all the FX and transitions done (perhaps even optimized through audacity or some DAW to get rid of imperfections) and could be played from beginning to end. pre-edits would be tracks with all kinds of stuff done to it, recorded as a new complete track that can then be used to mix live or in a pre-mix.
April 6, 2015 at 11:51 pm #2170301Jim Slaton
ParticipantOK, lets backup. This thread wasn’t so much about “if” he had a pre-mix rather than “how”. How do these guys typically do pre-mix? Do the do it in a DAW? Are they simply doing re-edits of songs and then mixing them live? Or are they actually doing all their mixing before hand? This was the real purpose of this thread. —— offensive language deleted —– Who knows how the pre-mix really happens? Hardwell did a lot of pre-edits to the tracks he played but they were not pre-mixed. Anybody know the workflow used?
April 7, 2015 at 7:19 am #2170581ModeratorHi Jim, while I appreciate your intensity on the matter, I don’t appreciate it when you “call bull shit on most of you”. We are a friendly community on here and like to keep it that way. Saying stuff like that does not fit that profile. Kindly refrain from making such comments in the future.
April 7, 2015 at 9:12 am #2170661Terry_42
KeymasterKeep to good manners, this is your first warning.
On topic:
Most DJs that I see that make pre-mix sets do them in Ableton Suite as it has the most accurate beatsyncing algorithm. You can just slap tracks together very very easily, slice them up and even do mashups if you have the right tools at hand.
Since most of them are playing their own productions they not only have that song, but the individual tracks of that song. So by layering them in Ableton, a remix is a real nobrainer and easy to do. I prolly could push out 10 remixes a night of my own songs (since I know them and already have them in Ableton).
So the workflow usually is simple: Do the edits to individual songs on Ableton, save those to batches, collect the downmixed songs in a new Ableton project and slap them together with the autosync algorithm. Then re-edit a little with the VJ to match his light performance and be done with it or add some extra spaces if you are a mic user.
Then play the mix 3 times so you do not look awkward pushing fake buttons and know when to “drop the bass” (like “waaiiiiit for it”)…. mission accomplished.Usually it is quite easy to spot pre-mix sets unless you see nothing of the DJ (like Deadmau5 who hides behind his big screens).
Am I upset about it?
No, it is how this business works. Most of the time you as a DJ have no say in this.
I had sets that I pre-made in very big events, not because I could not have played them live, but because I got told by the agent “if you want to play that festival you have to do it playback”. Live performance creates a risk, playback is “almost” risk free if no tech hiccup occurs and the visuals can also be pre-recorded.April 8, 2015 at 5:47 am #2171531ParticipantSorry for words, I misspoke (or typed). I didn’t mean it the way it was read but more in a joking and friendly manner. It’s easy to take someone the wrong way when you are reading typed words since you can’t see their facial expression or hear the inflection in their voice. I am definitely a person that can be read wrong. I’m an ex-army sergeant and airborne ranger with United States Special Operations.
After I got out of the Army I was a professional Skydiver for 10 years in LA and I accumulated over 10,000 parachutes jumps. I have organize large outdoor events (extreme sports) all over the world and after hiring DJs for years I decided to become one. Then about a year & half ago I decided to do it full-time and I’m wrapping my head around some of the methods used within the industry and in the process I have realized that there are a few “touch points” that seem to stir up a lot of emotions within the DJ community.
The use of a pre-mix a a live DJ gig seems to be one of them. It appears many DJs have a lot of choice words about it but most of them don’t seem to really understand whats going on behind the scenes when a DJ does a “pre-mix”. I think it would be best if some DJs/Producers with a lot more experience than me come out and explain it in detail. An article on Digitaltips.com could be a good start.
If you want to know how to land a high performance parachute or clear a room then I’m your guy, but I’m not a “well-known” DJ/Producer that people are willing to listen to….at least for now. I’ve reached out to some of the top progressive & electro house DJs for comment on the subject. Anybody willing to write a detailed article on the subject?
April 8, 2015 at 8:55 am #2171681ModeratorAnd we all know rangers, LOL. Spent some time while in the Dutch Navy, stationed in the Sinai (MFO) together with the 82nd Airborne. Met quite a few of them there.
Back on topic, again:
I think Terry pretty much nailed it. It’s a bit like trade secrets, they are secret for a reason. Many stage artists playback as well and sometimes for good reason, doesn’t mean they are willing to admit to or come out with it. Same with DJs. I know the extent of preparation that goes into the really big festivals (30.000+ people) and there is just no room for error. As Terry said, organizers rather have you fake it (clearly at some point in your career you must have proven that you CAN actually do that stuff in order to get to the point of being invited to the big stage), so the entire show (including pyro, lights, video) runs like a synchronized clock, than you coming out and freewheeling it.
You’d have to ask Phil, but I doubt there will be a “how to pre-mix a show convincingly” article on the blog anytime soon.
April 9, 2015 at 4:39 am #2172761Participant -
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