Two tracks at the same time
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Eliah Holiday.
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January 25, 2014 at 10:21 am #1026839
DJ Vintage
ModeratorHey there, frankly there are no real rules. Trust your ears is number 1, provided you don’t have very odd ears lol.
by the sound of it you have your speakers in your face and everyhting is noticeable in that case.
Starting with proper gain setting (aka trim) and taking out the bass on the incoming track (bass takes the majority of actual power) having both faders open at the same time should be ok. If your ears tell you it is too loud, by all means take out some of the incoming or outgoing tracks fader. Then do the eq transition and finally finish the mix with your faders.
There is a difference between something being louder (from a pure volume perspective) or something sounding “fuller” (for lack of a better word). The latter is always the case when mixing because even with the bass signal cut, there is still a lot of extra music information being added to the running track. So, your running track suddenly sounds busier so to speak. That is one of the reason to pick the right spot to bring the new track in, during an outro, break or other part of the track that not too much is going on musically.
Hope that helps some and greetinx.
January 25, 2014 at 11:46 am #1026848mauritsrotte@gmail.com
ParticipantLet me start with the gain / trim. With not messing with the gain they usually mean that you should not turn it al the way in the red. Use the gain to level the volumes of the tracks you are mixing. Don’t use the gain as the master volume.
About the volumes being louder when mixing. Well Vintage already said it. It is something that happens. I always see it as pushing two tracks through a channel that was made for one track. You can level it out with the EQ but you will hear it. And the louder the volume the louder the transitions will sound. Keep practising and eventually you will know when a transition is to loud and when it’s acceptable.
Record your mixes, because a transition that seems to loud from the DJ perspective can sound al right from the listeners point of view.
January 25, 2014 at 12:20 pm #1026850Bass Guy
ParticipantHi its all about practicing and listening to the the both tunes and then finding out where is the best place to mix the two tracks once you have found a sweet spot then make sure every time you beat match the two tracks into sync then. Add the bass in slightly then move into adding mid and then high eg and that’s how you should start out mixing one track with another its all about trial and error my friend. But its all about your style of mixing and theirs no rule just work with what you can do and don’t give up and in know time you will be more confident hoped that helped
January 26, 2014 at 5:06 pm #1027047DJ Can’t DJ
ParticipantThanks for the replies, guys, though I’m a bit lost with some of the replies.
I should have included these videos with my question(s). Here is one of Markus Schulz playing two tracks at the same time, various times, and it slightly touched the gain (I’d assume like I tried, but he seems to touch it much less): http://youtu.be/8twNwhMY1B8. His mix doesn’t sound any louder when playing two tracks at the same time.
Here’s one of Carl Cox doing the same, but I don’t seem to see him touch the gain: http://youtu.be/FBIj6Qt2o7A. I’m sure he plays two tracks together with the bass fully up on both, too.
What am I doing wrong then? Here’s two ‘mixes’ of mine: https://soundcloud.com/mattletrance. Some of the mixing is absolutely atrocious, but I’m trying different things. The first once I uploaded, I messed with the hi and bass, and the second, the gain and bass. In the first mix, as early as the first transition, you can hear exactly what I mean about it sounding ‘louder’.
As for a couple of things you guys posted; I think I’m getting it right most of the time in when to bring in a track (though not so good when taking one out), and I’m practicing a hell of a lot. So what EQs should I mess with and what should I leave alone? Should I persevere with fiddling with the gain or should I just not play two tracks at the same volume?
I do have a very low-end controller – I couldn’t afford very much – so could that be it? It was recommended in a video on here though!
January 26, 2014 at 10:04 pm #1027074Xavier D
ParticipantI do have a very low-end controller – I couldn’t afford very much – so could that be it? It was recommended in a video on here though!
I can be wrong so if I am, I hope Chuck or someone else will give you the right information. But I think there are limiters in the most famous clubs that will automatically change the gain if the volume is too “loud” – maybe in every nightclubs, I don’t know.
January 26, 2014 at 10:18 pm #1027079DJ Vintage
ModeratorQuick question. Are you using the crossfader too? Or just the channel faders?
January 26, 2014 at 11:45 pm #1027084DJ Can’t DJ
ParticipantXavier D; I use Mixvibes – which has a limiter – though it doesn’t seem to make any difference whether it’s on or off!
DJ Vintage; I’ve not used the crossfader. I’ve knocked it by accident (no option to disable it), but never really properly used it. Faders only.
January 27, 2014 at 11:09 am #1027159mauritsrotte@gmail.com
ParticipantI just listened to your mix a bit.
I am sorry I don’t hear it 😀 All I hear is well mixed set of some uplifting trance. The transitions do not seem to loud to me. Yes they are louder but that is happening when you are mixing. Just relax! your on the right path here. I think you are doing very well. Just keep practising. And don’t mirror yourself to much to experienced professional dj’s like Markus Schulz and Carl Cox.
January 28, 2014 at 2:27 am #1027252DJ Can’t DJ
ParticipantThank you for the feedback! I noticed you listened to the second mix – did you listen to the first one at all? I ask because in the second mix, I turn up and down the gain during every transition – otherwise it DOES sound loud – and I want to get out of the habit of doing that. The first mix I didn’t – I only messed around with the EQs and left the tracks playing together at full volume.
I’ve just tried doing another mix and I used the faders only to control the volume. I felt very rushed when bringing one track down, and the other up, before making the final transition, if you know what I mean. So I brought one track in gradually, while taking the other out at the same time, and never having them both at full volume at the same time. Is that an acceptable way to DJ?
I’m very new, hence all then questions, and I don’t want to model myself on professionals, but I certainly need a starting point! 🙂
Hope I’m not boring you. I really do appreciate the feedback so far!
January 28, 2014 at 3:01 am #1027255Lamid45G
ParticipantI’ve just tried doing another mix and I used the faders only to control the volume. I felt very rushed when bringing one track down, and the other up, before making the final transition, if you know what I mean. So I brought one track in gradually, while taking the other out at the same time, and never having them both at full volume at the same time. Is that an acceptable way to DJ?
One of the beauty of DJ ing for me, ish when I’m fully mix 2 different songs at the same volume and let them two to ride each other, let it mix together for 2/3 mins, some people called them Long Mix, the beauty of those two songs harmonically support each other, it gave me a goosebumps, an adrenaline sensation, well just all kind of sensation lol, it’s just one of those aspect I love in DJ ing
Since you digged trance, I recommended this classic mixing that until this day i still hold dearly, Ayla – “Ayla Part II” mix into Ayla – “Into the Light”
The mix it’s in one my vids –> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jabojGB7x8g
Keep in mind, this is when I just started mixing (be kind with the critiques and such lol), so It might be the best mixing in the world by today standard, but you get the idea at least of running both songs at full volume at the same time, you will find the Ayla mixing towards the end of it
February 10, 2014 at 1:58 pm #1028977DJ Can’t DJ
ParticipantI don’t want to let them play together for too long. I’ve been trying all sorts since I started this topic and I just can’t get it right. The only way I managed it was by, as I said before, using the gain slightly, almost as additional faders, when the faders are both max.
I really need help, as nothing I do seems to work. If you ask me, it’s very noticeable on here: https://soundcloud.com/mattletrance/learning-to-mix-tips-please. The VU always goes into red when I play two tracks together.
I used Mixvibes LE and this: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/digital_dj/gemini/Firstmix_Pro#.UvjMopz91LM.
I know I’ve waffled on a bit, but I personally think keeping the levels the same is the last thing I need to conquer, and it’s driving me insane!
February 10, 2014 at 2:18 pm #1028979DJ Can’t DJ
ParticipantIn fact, that’s still not a great example – I didn’t upload the mix where I played two tracks together for too long. Cutting the bass isn’t enough, even though it seems to be for everyone else! Could it be the gear I’ve bought? I’m not exactly rich.
February 11, 2014 at 3:34 am #1029169Lamid45G
ParticipantCould be your gear, maybe? Tell ya what forget the controllers, download the home free trial of Virtual DJ, and just try to mix tracks using only your laptop, see how it go with the bass and like, when you mix two of the same tracks you have problem with
February 11, 2014 at 1:33 pm #1029244mauritsrotte@gmail.com
ParticipantI, ve been listening to your second mix. The one you think where the transitions are too loud. And once again I don’t think there is anything wrong with your mix. I don’t think the transitions are too loud. And don’t even hear the transitions. Unless I listen really close. You hear the transitions because you know where they are. I think it is mixed really well. I recently did a mix where the transitions where also quite loud. Sometimes that happens in my opnion. And it also depends on the tracks you use. On the genre music you play. Remember you are your own biggest critic. That goes for nearly all artists. Which is a good thing because you are always looking to improve yourself. But don’t let it paralyse you so to speak.
I don’t think the problem is your controller. But I am curious of what loudspeakers you use. Because that might be the problem. I myself used to DJ with Hi-Fi speakers. I used my micro Hi-Fi set. And with those speakers I also had loud transitions. Now I use the M audio AV 40 and it is a lot better. Studio monitor type speakers have a flat frequency response. And I find it easier to mix with those. Because you hear the music as it was recorded instead of how your loudspeakers translate the music. Normal loudspeakers colour the sound which I find to more difficult to mix with. So maybe that is something to look in to. And I said it before. playing two tracks at once will always raise the volume. Because there is al ot more going on. I don’t know if your controller has vu meters for each channel. But if they do use those to match the volumes of each tracks with track you are playing. You can use the gain to do that. because different tracks have different volumes. If it still is problem you cold use platinum notes http://www.platinumnotes.com/ That program will even the volumes of each track. I hope it all works out for you
February 19, 2014 at 4:25 pm #2005306Eliah Holiday
ParticipantI’ve been getting into using the EQ and filter a lot more in mixing. At this point it’s almost like I’m mixing purely by EQ and filter. I can’t say I got it right at the moment as I am still learning the ins and outs (pun) of this technique. Essentially I have one track playing, I cue up another track listening to what stands out (the kick and/or bass and/or HH…etc.) and then drop the EQ on those elements. From there I raise the line fader for track 2 (crossfader already center) listening to how the new track sits in with the playing track and EQ adjust if needed. I use to go faders full and start mixing over from there but found I usually need to drop track 1 down a notch to keep volume levels even. From there I usually start at the Hi EQ and swap them out (assuming track 2 has upper range information to swap out that is) then I go to mids and do the same. Finally I slowly remove the bass from track 1 while raising the bass on track 2 all while making sure there are no big jumps in volume. I use the filter to tweak this process whenever I need to drop out an element faster as well sometimes I fade out a track via filter. I haven’t messed around with the gain that much. I think the idea with gain adjustment is around the the filter as a filter will cut more energy than an EQ will and so if you hi-pass your incoming track you might need to raise the gain and then as you filter back to normal drop the gain. Of course all this is subject to the tracks you are mixing. Too the quality of the EQ and filter you use makes a difference (I currently use Traktor’s P800 setting for EQ and the Z filter). If you watch Nina Kraviz you’ll see her do a considerable amount of knob tweaking as she blends in and out tracks.
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