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The other side to EDM popularity.

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  • July 16, 2014 at 12:05 am #2043478
    Bossdrum
    Participant

    What is so great about our choice of music? It is one of the few genre/styles of music that ALWAYS evolves, it’s constantly in motion because unlike Rock/Country/Folk etc it does not have a set of rules or traditions that must be followed for acceptance. Country music almost died in the 1980’s because it stubbornly refused to break from traditional norms of instrumentation and attire, yup T-shirts. Shania Twain saved country music with a T-shirt. I’m an old school clubber/dj, started 1987 in Seattle (b.1972). I still love my firsts… Mantronix,Freestyle,Cover Girls,CCCP,Egyptian Lover. Played and loved alot of the early Freestyle Electro House and I was sad when it died out around 1991-92 but a few years later I got hit with LFO’s – Freak and my mind was blown again like it was at the first rave I did back in 1991.

    By 1996 we got the love from people like LTJ Bukem, 4hero,and BT who goes on to basiclly fathered a whole genre then got bored and evolved his skill set to create F’n STUTTER EDIT which opened the creative tool box door for any person on the planet that wants to create or destroy music. Think Metalica or Kenny Rogers would come on stage with nothing but a laptop and no band on a whim? nope. But if BT,Daft Punk,Skrillex or Sub Focus showed up with no laptops but a full live band,we would think “oh wonder what surprise we have coming up?” DAMN our choice of music is unlike anything else…. well maybe like Jazz but Jazz is not music, it’s musical wanking? 🙂 Eliah I understand your perspective but man your not old, you still DJ, you still have the passion for the craft and the control you have in making people move and lose their freaking minds for 6 to 8 hrs then happily drive themselves home.

    All you need my friend is a fresh perspective. We are no longer at the age where our whole peer group influences our choices (which is why America has “taken over” electronic music) . Also being a DJ kinda shields you from your peer groups taste in music no matter what age you are. I ride motorcycles Harley/cruisers/classic 70’s imports wearing not boots but Puma’s or Samba Classics and I listen to DnB,House,Dubstep on rides. Choose what you like and how you like it. I’m a house head at heart but what I spin now is mostly DnB and a bit of Dubstep because I’ve found a new home that has elements of house,trance and breaks which makes the house lover in me happy plus I’ve discovered some simply amazing artists and producers that would be lost to me and I would be poorer for it as a music lover and as a DJ.

    The pay off for me: in 03-04 I was a res house dj at The Red Sea, 3 rooms 200-400 people a night. Every night I played the same style of house (per the owners) and people had a good time, I thought I was happy. Club closes after 20 years and I take a break from gig’n. FWD to 2012-13. I do some radio sets and small venues, but I do them on my terms. I stay away from the Afrojacks and Guetta’s not because I don’t like them but because everyone has heard it 100 times. I play what I like and think the listeners will appreciate. I played a small venue of about 40 people last year and the second track I play is Seba – Under The Sun it was not on any radio or charts at the time…… I had 3 people come up to me,one of them was tearing up to ask me who the artist was and thanked me over and over during the night. That moment made me smile more than I ever would have at the Red Sea with 400 people going crazy. Not a single person danced that night,they listened.

    Long winded,sorry for that but I hope something in there gives you a fresh perspective.

    Also DUDE HOUSE!!!!! your in Canada home of Black Tiger Sex Machine which are imo some of the best creators of Deep, Dark and Prog House.(im biasd though I did a demo/sample mix for one of their EP’s) awesome guys!!
    Look for the track Moonlight or Rezorecta. To add: Nora En Pure – Come with Me (house perfection and a personal fav house track). Hot Since 82 – Shadows and Isbells – Reunite(Niklas Thal Edit) (more house perfection) I hope that at least one of these tracks will make you smile.

    July 16, 2014 at 7:31 pm #2043670
    dj_rubish
    Participant

    Although I agree with most of the sentiment, I must say that every type of music has an evolutionary change. Saying rock has not changed is completely not the case. We had DooWop and Blues which fathered Rock. That gave birth to the British Invasion, surf rock, punk rock, new wave, alternative, ska rock and grunge among others. There is always an evolution; todays country is completely different from the days of Patsy Cline and either are relevant to their appropriate eras.
    A love or, more appropriately stated, nostalgia for the days gone by is our way of clinging onto what we perceive as the greatest times or moments of our lives. We frequently associate music with events and that results in these strong feelings we have.
    At each of these evolutionary leaps in music we have a group of people, a generation, that embraces it, as well as the group that perceives it as worthless or just a bunch of noise.

    July 16, 2014 at 8:02 pm #2043688
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Ah yes … you say Bolero by Ravel … and we say … Bo Derek!

    July 17, 2014 at 12:17 am #2043720
    Bossdrum
    Participant

    @dj_rubish “I must say that every type of music has an evolutionary change. Saying rock has not changed is completely not the case.”

    Your absolutely right.I can see how my statement inferring that other music doesn’t evolve comes off as an elitist,narrow minded viewpoint , my apologies as this was not my intention nor my overall view of the music industry. To clarify my viewpoint, it is my opinion that technology drives electronic music more than any other style of music and therefore tends to change more frequently.

    Thanks again Dj Rubish

    July 17, 2014 at 6:54 am #2043748
    dj_rubish
    Participant

    No worries, I didn’t take it as elitist or narrow minded. Understand exactly what you mean with technology driving electronic music.

    And regarding the evolution of music, the reason why I focused on rock was because of a youtube video I had to watch at some corporate thing that was the evolution of rock and dance or something like that.

    July 17, 2014 at 8:35 am #2043755
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    I think every musical genre has had a rapid change period. Up to the point where it became the main genre of a generation and that generation gets older. As soon as that happens you have a critical mass of people that don’t want “their” favorite music to change (much). So evolution slows down. The current generation however is in the phase that all chance is good chance. EDM is the genre of the current generation. I am sure that when a new genre emerges and get’s adopted by the next generation, that EDM will slow it’s evolution too in order to keep alive with “their” generation.

    Hope that makes sense … LOL

    July 17, 2014 at 7:53 pm #2043867
    Phil Worrell
    Participant

    yeah what Vintage said… 🙂

    July 17, 2014 at 9:05 pm #2043874
    Eliah Holiday
    Participant

    Well there is such a thing as de-evolution as well. Thankfully once something goes too far one way it usually snaps back the other way. Too I realize there has to be crappy pop music in the world which makes an underground possible. Just kinda interesting that we use to go to raves to hear that which you didn’t on radio n’ such. Now you go to big festival parties to hear exactly that. But anyways…I think DJs just gotta keep doin there thing and plug away at it. But it’s tough…

    July 17, 2014 at 9:43 pm #2043878
    Phil Worrell
    Participant

    What I would do is play what you have to for the crowd and at home throw down your mixes get them up on the internet and start plugging away.

    July 17, 2014 at 10:44 pm #2043887
    Alex Moschopoulos
    Participant

    The only big change I think that needs to happen is that DJs need to start looking to take control of the scene again.

    Back in the past, the promoters who ran the scene were more scenesters who stayed out of the way of the DJ. They wanted to build a cool vibe that stood out from the pack. It’s why DJs had so much musical freedom in the past.

    After the 90s, it changed. Suddenly the managers or promoters became businessmen more focused on the bottom line over anything. Many times a new club would open from a couple of lawyers or stock traders who made big money and now they want to be seen as “cool” (and get laid). They didn’t think outside of the box, but simply went with the “safe” options that they believe would bring the maximum results.

    This especially started when bottle service went rampant. In many ways, it was these folks trying to rid the club scene of the rave culture that dominated it for so long. Now, we have a scene where DJs are fired quickly and easily if they don’t work their tails off the please the biggest spenders, or the hottest women.

    This is why I keep saying “build a scene”. It’s the only way the DJ-minded and music-minded folks will gain back an avenue to broaden the musical landscape.

    July 18, 2014 at 6:23 am #2043930
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    I understand your sentiments D-Jam and partly agree, although I think it’s a bit of a bleak outlook on the (DJ) world. Things change, they always do. The fun thing is that the underground DJs were one of the motors of change then. Now change comes in other forms in a changed landscape. I’d expect those change-minded DJs of yesteryear to adopt and find new ways to be change-facilitators. Building a scene is definitely something to do in that direction. And it’s being made so much easier with all the easily available ways to get your ideas out quickly and reach vast amounts of people if need be.

    One thing is for sure, “complaining” that the old days are gone and the new days “suck”, is not gonna bring any change.

    So I am with you that if you don’t like what you see and you feel you have a message of change, be creative about bringing it around.

    At the end of the day the customer (i.e. people visiting clubs or more ecclectic venues) decide if they want the change, accept the message the DJ has to bring.

    July 18, 2014 at 4:12 pm #2044052
    colione25@yahoo.com
    Participant

    The main job of a nightclub dj is to LEAD. How does a dj lead? By breaking new music and interpreting the feeling and vision behind the producer behind the piece of music to create atmosphere. We have leaders all over the place like radio djs, producer djs, club djs, youtube djs, but yet, just like society, most people can’t lead and most of all, djs today are even less than leaders.

    The disconnect is that on one hand, guys like Jam will say the djs need to take back the scene. That is a true statement. But on the other hand, the rest of the djs say similar to what Phil W says “What I would do is play what you have to for the crowd and at home throw down your mixes get them up on the internet and start plugging away”. So when is the conversion? When do we stop spinning our wheels “for the crowd”? Phil, the crowd is not the dj. Stop giving such advice- no offense. Think about that disconnect for moment. 1- we should take back the scene but 2, play what the crowd wants to hear what they want. But at the same time, djs must produce in order to get gigs, play the radio, play the nightclubs, and have a platform to express ourselves but then play what the crowd wants? True leaders do go back to their bedrooms to play their own music. They do it right then and now and the crowd follows… We are men! Act like it…

    It has nothing to do with being older or being nostalgic. The music that the OP likes is still being made So why shouldn’t he be able to play it out? After all- we all say we must support our producers right? How else would he be able to make a mix tape but not play for the crowd using the same current music- does that even make sense? Think about that and we will get back to you.

    Here is what many don’t understand. The music is there. The in between music like tribal and vocal house is here more than before. The problem is that there is this extreme divide between commercial and underground now. Guys hop on the EDM wagon and the other half hop on the underground wagon with no clue what underground is or understand it as a way of life. It’s not simply playing deep house or techno. Therefore, underground ruin the scene by hosting dark after hour sets in there “we are undergrouind” t-shirts at posh top40 lounges with only a few showing up. This then causes the venue to lose money and there goes dance music. Rather, there should be the in-between music that crosses over to progressive, deep, tech, etc. That way, people don’t go from EDM to deep house. The brain doesn’t work like that unless you are part of that scene.

    The system is broken and djs need to stop being little girls and start taking over and playing cross over stuff that allows the extremes of EDM and underground to co-exist. If not, then two extremes will blow cause its too much.
    Even set troxler said at the Ibiza IMS 2014 that the tech house/techno scene is saturated. There is too much of it in one scene at any giving time. 50 techno parties on a Saturday in NY. That is too much.

    There is a coolness factor in all of this but likewise, there is a terrible disconnect. For some reason, people seem to associate EDM with the uneducated bandwagon kids. But many fail to realize that it is not the genre itself, it is people in general. People give underground a pass. There is as much boring loopy music in underground as there is boring formulaic electro hard dance. Problem is, because it is underground, it gets a pass. Anything non-commercial automatically gets a pass. Remember, top 10 beatport underground is to what the top 10 beatport EDM is… haaaa, many people won’t accept that cause its underground and gets a pass. Not so fast bucko. If one strictly has only top 50 of anything on rotation, you are too a fanny.

    July 18, 2014 at 5:48 pm #2044078
    Alex Moschopoulos
    Participant

    although I think it’s a bit of a bleak outlook on the (DJ) world.

    I understand how my assessment does look bleak, but in all honestly I think the DJ world is anything but bleak.

    I started in 1992 with analog vinyl. Imagine a world where I could not go online and buy music files to play. Imagine a world where you can’t have less “footprint” with your gear setup (thinking of a midi control versus a full analog setup). Back in 1992, I never would have fathomed it.

    Imagine how DJing was before the internet.

    I’ll tell you, if we had the “1992 world” right now, and I’m 40 and “done” with the gig world…I’d probably sell it all and completely stop. YET…because of the internet, midi, digital, DAW, DVS, etc…I can keep going. I can blog. I can produce. I can make mixes and upload them for anyone to hear. I can buy tunes anytime from anywhere I can get online. I can buy loops and samples. I can have a setup that I can easily take apart when I’m not DJing. I could take a small control and laptop and make a mix while sitting in a cafe sipping a latte. I can sit at my work on an off-day and produce a track or remix with just a laptop…and then put it online to share or sell.

    I think this brave new world we live in has made it so much more easier to be a DJ. Yeah…the really cool gigs with great people and cool “underground” music are still difficult to land, but if one doesn’t want to deal with it all…they can still be a DJ.

    Lord knows if I wanted more, I can podcast. I can blog. I can do plenty.

    One thing is for sure, “complaining” that the old days are gone and the new days “suck”, is not gonna bring any change.

    So I am with you that if you don’t like what you see and you feel you have a message of change, be creative about bringing it around.

    And there is the point of my responses. Complaining won’t change anything. The complainer just becomes the old fart sitting in the corner reminiscing about the “good ol days”.

    I prefer to do what I love…and find ways to enjoy it at my own “rules”. I honestly love that I can be the kind of DJ I want to be and not have to worry about pleasing a tough crowd or make a living out of this.

    However, I’ve embraced being a bedroom/hobbyist DJ. For the others who want a crowd and such…they need to adapt, or work to build something so they potentially have this life they wish for. Every superstar had to build something in order to be a superstar. 🙂

    July 18, 2014 at 6:01 pm #2044079
    dj_rubish
    Participant

    Building a scene is a good way to lead. What Phil states is valid though. The unfortunate reality is that if you want a crowd you have to play to what the crowd wants. Even though building a scene sounds good, it is work and it is lonely because if you lead, you isolate yourself from the rest.
    D-Jam has a great article on building the scene and it is clearly not for the faint of heart.
    Currently the music the OP enjoys is being made, it has not been that long since it was the scene. Think about it, even up to a year or two ago, grunge was still being made! Music and scenes, like everything else is cyclical; you talk about 50 techno parties in NY? I remember when new wave and goth was the scene and there were 50+ parties in NY on a Saturday night for that. Or disco, when there were 150+ parties in NY for that!
    He can play out whatever he likes and he does, the OP was upset about the lack of crowds not the lack of his being able to play the music.
    Anyone can mix a tape with any type of music, what does that have to do with playing a gig for a crowd.

    Bottomline is you can lead and make the scene which is hard work and can provide reward as well as risk or you can play what the crowd, current scene, club management wants you to play and receive some reward with smaller risk.

    There is a final third options; do both. Try to build a scene but dont give up the paying gigs that are less than stellar in your eyes.

    But ultimately, this whole male bravado thing is unbecoming and crass. Especially considering that there are many very good female dj’s out there.

    July 19, 2014 at 8:11 am #2044154
    Phil Worrell
    Participant

    Halfamazing – thanks for counter response, you present a good argument there. No offense was taken. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the subject and it is an emotional topic this one. I know you are waiting for me to say but well no. As DJ’s it is up to us to lead in musical terms, you are correct in that statement. Breaking new music and leading people on a musical journey is certainly what any good DJ does. What you need to take into consideration is that without a crowd there is no DJ business, so it is a fine balance to keep the crowd happy and the music moving.

    What I will say is that from the sounds of it Eliah (and correct me if I’m wrong) is DJing as a business and he got in because not only was it making him money, but he loved the music he was playing. So everything was aligned for him. Now several years down the line the two have drifted apart.

    Now he is Djing as just a job and feels a little flat as the music and crowd has changed. It happens to us all in every profession. We go through patches where things do change and we feel out of control. Our response to this is different in several ways, we can either long for the good times back, or accept the change and move on. Each of us deals with these things in our own way and own time.

    My advice was to simply offer something quick and simple that Eliah could do to help him exercise the past by taking an immediate action. As you say building a scene is another way of doing it, it just takes a bit more time.

    Sure I offer advice, but that is simply all it is. Eliah can read into it what he will or choose to ignore it.

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