Speaker help for mobile set up
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DJ Vintage.
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March 20, 2014 at 3:25 pm #2012937
Terry_42
Keymaster1st of all:
Do not buy this … it is bad.Then start here:
http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/04/beginners-guide-to-pa-systems-part-1-basics/and here:
http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/10/lighting-guide-djs-part-1/Read all the parts of both series (they are free!) and then come back to us with the questions you still have.
March 20, 2014 at 4:36 pm #2012999Sean Leonard
ParticipantVery informative guide’s thank you. My shopping list has just expanded! But one question on connecting up… If I add 1 or 2 subwoofers to a setup do they all generally have a “through” type feature? So I connect Mixer – Active Subwoofer – Active Speaker? And if this is correct will this affect sound quality from the speakers? Reliability is very very important to me as It will be being used in sometimes very hot environments (bars in Greece). Thanks for the help!
March 20, 2014 at 5:01 pm #2013009DJ Vintage
ModeratorHi, Gotta love bars in Greece 🙂
Most subwoofers will have the built-in crossover that is needed to separate the low tones (for the subwoofer) from the “higher” ones (for the top speakers). In which case you plug it in exactly as you described. The lowest bit stays in the subwoofer and will not reach the top speakers. This is good!
The lower the frequency, the more power you need to make that sound. So subwoofers have lots of power and a very small range of tones they have to produce (typically between 35-125HZ, sometimes even narrower). This means the top speakers don’t have to worry about those power-guzzling lower frequencies (below 125Hz) anymore. All the amplifier power is now freed up to drive the rest of the frequency spectrum.
The effect it will have on the sound quality is extended low frequency range, more total volume/power and better sounding low, low-mids from the top.
Some subs will also have a full signal through link, don’t use those in this configuration though. It means your tops will still need to produce those low notes also and it will sound muddy and with lacking low/low-mid. The full signal through connector is only there if you need to link few subwoofers together (in bigger PA setups) in which case you want the next subwoofer to get all the lowest stuff too.
Hope that helps.
Greetinx.
March 20, 2014 at 5:19 pm #2013022Sean Leonard
ParticipantThanks for the replies guys I am understanding this more and more now. But could someone please tell me why the speakers that I posted a link to would suck? They have plenty of power? If I ran them alongside subwoofers aswell?
March 20, 2014 at 7:48 pm #2013085Terry_42
KeymasterSimple:
#1 The brand is a Chinese knock off
#2 There is no chance in the heavens that they actually deliver 3000W performance
#3 The rule in PA: You pay what you get -> If anyone could make a good sounding PA at that price point with that actual wattage, everyone would
#4 They are monitorsThe rule is simple: If you buy cheap you will buy twice (or trice) …
So I would bet money on the fact that my 1000W Peavey PA for more than double the price would easily blow this system away. In sound quality and actual dB sound output.
If it comes to PA chose quality gear! If you cannot afford it: Save up and rent in the meantime…
March 21, 2014 at 4:04 am #2013289Sean Leonard
ParticipantThanks for the great answers guys. Well I have a budget of £500 max for speakers and amps, I need to be able to cater for a comfortable 100 people. Anything bigger I will hire equipment in. Can anyone recommend anything for this price range or am I pissing in the wind?
March 21, 2014 at 4:12 am #2013291Yared Lee
ParticipantMy father is an studio engineer and sound-man, and he always said to me ‘Spend money good one time, never spend money again” start out with two good quality powered monitors and a powered sub, that should hold you for quite some time! Until you learn more, stick with that. If you have a gig requiring more equipment, rent the extra and add it to your fee 🙂
March 21, 2014 at 5:22 am #2013321Isaiah Furrow
ParticipantI’ve just recently started out with mobile stuff, and I’ll let you in on what gear I’ve started with… I have a pair of 12″ tops and a small, easily portable sub. They do nicely and I would think it would be good for up to about 100-150 people. For lighting, I started with a fog machine, 4 LED par fixtures, and a couple dance lights that compliment each other nicely for now, and will be even better later as I add more to it, and add DMX control of the setup. Stands and bags/covers for it all and I’m ready for some real gigs now, have done 2 parties and loving the setup so far.
Investing in speakers is not a thing I took lightly, nor any of the rest of this gear, I’m in it about $4000 and working on making that pay for it’s self and earn the $$ for additional stuff as well. The speakers were $1400 before stands, covers, cabling, etc… I got a sub that has thru outputs, the sub has a crossover in it, so it only plays up to about 100Hz or so, but output is full range as far as I can tell. The tops I have allow me to choose to run them either full range, or with 80,100,120Hz or a setting specific to a particular sub of the same brand. Each maker or line of speakers models have differences and it’s key to make sure that the sub/s and tops will work together. If the tops I have didn’t have crossovers, the sub would need an option to output only the proper range, etc.
Hooking up for me at the moment involves 2 cables from the R/L outputs of my setup to the sub inputs, then from the sub outs to the tops. Adding another sub would mean into the one, out to the second, and then to the tops, or at least that’s what I’m assuming I’ll need to do. Having the proper connectors at each end will depend on the equipment being hooked up…
Come back and let us know what you’re thinking, wondering about, or what speakers are making it onto your short list.March 21, 2014 at 8:44 am #2013358Terry_42
KeymasterA half decent setup for 100 people will cost you at least 1000, a mid-range setup for 100 people will cost you about 1200-1500. A really really good setup for 100 people will cost you about 2000-3000.
These are the simple facts. There is no wonders in PA. Well actually there are some, but they are really expensive.
March 21, 2014 at 11:50 am #2013398Isaiah Furrow
ParticipantI’m looking at some inspirational stuff tonight, EV ETX series… Hope by this time next year I can pick up a 15″ sub and have my eye on that one, or something similar… I have time to look into others and do some listening at Guitar Center in the meantime, as I’ll be using the ZLX tops and ZXA1 Subs for a while. Actually have plans to add some more tops and a second ZXA1 Sub before I bump it up to the full on, weapons grade audio gear… May stick to the ZLX tops in the long run even when I go to doing larger venues, just have 4-6 of them. Are those ETX and other similarly priced speakers the kind of “wonders” you were speaking of Terry, or are the ones you had in mind even more expensive? Google gives me a current exchange value of a little over $800 with his 500 pound figure, so minus stands and cables, that would give him enough for a pair of ZLX12P speakers, or if he went with something like Mackie Thumps or B212D/215D he might get a pair and stands and even get a retailer to throw in the proper cables. I personally didn’t like the sound of the Mackies, except for the expensive ones I listened to, the HD series I think it was. I almost got B212D tops and a sub but liked the sound of the EV speakers, and the more classy appearance, so I sacrificed a couple other things on my startup list to get the better speakers. I can always spruce up my table with a cover, and façade later on, and DMX control is in the works later as well, but my beginner light show is OK in sound mode for now… I would say that a pair of decent 12″ or 15″ powered PA speakers would do OK for 100 people or so, might leave you wanting more Bass, but a few gigs could earn the sub to add on. The OP was speaking of hooking up to a DDJ-SX which isn’t a cheap controller, so I’d imagine the idea of buying quality gear is within their grasp. Also, the SX has XLR as well as RCA master outputs, and TRS booth outs, so depending on speaker choices, the hookup configurations are many. For instance, XLR master outs to sub, sub outputs to tops… OR, master outs to tops, booth outs to sub, giving independent volume control to the tops and sub, could be handy (just got a new idea)… Thanks to all of the folks who make DDJT so great! Moonshadow
March 21, 2014 at 2:43 pm #2013423DJ Vintage
ModeratorIt’s not dependent on the size of the speaker. It’s not even dependent on the power of the amp (Watts). What really matters are the effiency of the speaker and, in combination with the amount of power, the max SPL (power level). As a general rule, you’d need 5 Watt per person (minimum), and this is RMS – no fancy beefed up Music Power, Program Power or whatever nice names they have for it. Outdoors it doubles and for heavy/load dance music double is also a good idea.
So for 100+ people you’d need a minimum of 500W RMS, but preferably 1000W RMS. And because 100 people soak up a lot of low end, which is where the majority of your amp power goes, a sub is also a very good idea.
If you hook up your tops to the master and the sub(s) to the booth, make sure you switch those crossovers on in the tops. And be aware that usually booth out does NOT send mic signal. So if you use microphone, it won’t go over the subs. Not a real problem and might actually help, just so you know though.
Greetinx.
March 22, 2014 at 11:46 am #2013766Sean Leonard
ParticipantSome very good input guys I have decided to adjust things in my shopping list and also extend my budget a bit. Going to go with 2 active tops and a subwoofer. Still researching which one’s but I am a big fan of doing it right the first time. Just a lil question on connecting then if I only have one sub, It will go DDJ SX – PA Mixer – Subwoofer – Active Speaker on one output and directly from PA Mixer – Active Speaker on the other channel? Or will both outputs go to one subwoofer which will then through the signal to both tops? I’m a little bit lost there. Also do I need to make sure the sub low filters the through signal or will tops generally have the correct crossovers built in?
March 22, 2014 at 2:48 pm #2013837DJ Vintage
ModeratorA good subwoofer will have dual inputs (L/R) and dual outputs (L/R). You hook up BOTH inputs from your controller to your sub. Then run one cable each to your top speakers. If you ever get a second sub, you’ll just run controller-sub-top on each side seperately.
It does depend a little on your top speakers. If they have a high pass filter, you can run one side either stereo in or mono in, with one through lead to the top and the other top straight from the controller. Just be sure to turn on the high pass filter on both top speakers.
In my experience the crossover is USUALLY in the subs (single tops don’t really need a high-pass filter and subs are usually added afterwards, very few people start out with one sub and then start adding top speakers later). If you stay with the same brand and preferably series (has to do with acoustic design/tuning), it will connect properly, regardless of where the filter is.
A same brand/series setup has several advantages. Already the acoustic design/tuning bit, the right cross-over/filter frequency and such.
I can only comment on my own choice a few years back. I ended up getting the Mackie HD series (I have 2x 12″top with 1x 18″ sub) and I can safely recommend these to anyone. Prices have dropped in recent times (I know there is a mk2 around the corner) and you can pick up set for a reasonable price. They sound awesome, good build quality, all the protective measures you need (heat and clip protection), digital amps with plenty of headroom. Three audio presets: normal, monitor or contour (emphasis on speech frequencies if you are amplifying a meeting or something). The nice, trademark, blue LED on the front can be switched off.
The have different types and sizes, but this set had just all the right things for me.
Greetinx.
March 22, 2014 at 4:35 pm #2013869Terry_42
KeymasterAs far as budget PA goes, I would recommend to give the LD Dave 12 and 15 a listen. The 12 might be a tiny bit short for 100+, but the 15 worked quite OK for 150 I have to say. The system is definitely road worthy and has a “smallish” mixer integrated in the sub. I connected my controller and wireless mic system to the sub directly and it worked fine.
March 23, 2014 at 7:24 am #2015062Sean Leonard
ParticipantThanks DJ Vintage, has anybody got any experience with the Behringer range?
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