Shadow kicked off the tables in Miami/Advice(?)

J-Zed, post: 34047, member: 1486 wrote: I don’t like it, but you’re 100% right and if it was my club I’d do the exact same thing. Lately we had a boom in bottle service here in Toronto that frustrated many fans. However lately we have seen a divide where there are clearly top 40 clubs for barbies and bottles and the other clubs for the music fans. Seems like it’s working but even the ‘underground’ bigger clubs that open still have tables with service which I think is alright but they’re keeping them low key and more out of the way. Only time will tell if it works.

You know, it’s not all hopeless. Back when I got started in the early 90s, you had clubs catering to the underground, which were usually kind of dark, dank, and dirty…and you had clubs pandering to the mainstream, which were bright, pretty, and well decorated. In the underground spot the trixie would be told she won’t get to hear pop music, and should go to a different club. In the mainstream club, the underground music requests would get the same responses.

What changed is the fact the rise of the superstar DJ. Now we can go to the DJ Mag Top 100 and see plenty of mainstream music superstar DJs…but too often these guys also now cost more than a promoter can afford. So if I was bringing Skrillex or Avicii to Chicago, even a large club won’t be able to cover their price unless I’m charging an expensive cover…so I end up putting them into a small concert venue with an 18 and up age limit so I can bring out the numbers and make my money.

Places like Mansion unfortunately simply do not know how to find that balance between pleasing the high money people who really want the posh mainstream music club, and yet pleasing the press and industry who seemingly only worship the underground movements. You don’t hear about the top mainstream music bottle service spots getting written up in Urb, Mixmag, or other such spots.

Mansion knows if they’re only mentioned in tourist publications, then they won’t be seen as “cutting edge” or “cool”. Thus your cycle of life as a club will be short. I’ve seen glam bottle service spots in Chicago that practically shut down, do minor remodeling, rename themselves, and reopen every year…because by the end of the year the crowds they get aren’t the few “A-List” folk, but the office workers and blue collar folks in nicer clothes.

Meanwhile, some dark spot that brings out the RA Top 100 list ends up getting writeups in the publications and blogs…thus perpetually keeping them as the “cutting edge”…even if trixies show up and lament how it’s not clean enough, bright enough, and the people don’t dress expensively enough.

So we have the balancing act. Mansion and Marquee keep trying and failing to be cutting edge because they branded themselves initially as the mainstream clubs. New York clubs now at times forbid their DJs from playing mainstream music because they want credibility…which even leads some like DJ Louis XIV to blog about how (in his eyes) mainstream music needs to be given credibility and not quickly dismissed as junk because it’s popular.

This is why the anti-mainstream folk need to stop trying to get clubs to jump on board, and instead start their own events and scene.

D-Jam, post: 34046, member: 3 wrote: Well…I’m sure all those headliners were fully paid regardless. I don’t think Farina or Shadow ended up not getting compensated. I’m sure their agents have it in the contract in case, let’s say, a power outage hit the club.

In this case, they pulled the headliner willingly, but they still have to pay for his time. I also don’t see things changing where promoters will decide to sign contracts that remove their right to remove a DJ.

I have to put my promoter hat on here. If I have a club with 10 booths and a moderate-sized dance floor, I have to think numbers. Remember all I wrote about in the guide to throwing/promoting events. You have to treat it like a business. If my 10 booths are full of high rollers who will EACH spend $4000-$12,000 in the night versus a full dance floor that might only bring a total of $6000…I’m sorry, the high rollers will win the fight every time.

Even the barstaff will agree because those high-rollers will give them hundreds in tips compared to the dollars from the crowd. This is why you saw so many clubs shrink or remove their dance floors and put in more booths. They honestly want the best revenue stream…not to please music nerds.

In all honesty, and I said it earlier, I wish then these glam spots would come to reality and stop believing they can be both high-rolling glam/fashion hot spot…and musically innovative spot. We all can see now this won’t happen. The high rollers are more than likely out to lay their barbie dolls, and the barbie dolls only care about showing off that they are in a booth with a sugar daddy.

So now I’m sure some of you DJs will get angry how it seems good music is being pushed out for money. This is when and why you all have to take it on yourselves to build a scene. This is when I’ll see some guys come together to throw events, or take over promoting a night They might throw raves, or do a night where they tell the high-rollers they won’t pull the headliner…and thus risk the revenue loss. They might go look for a venue that has no booth service.

In any case, we can complain…but the real answer is all the complainers who want change will have to go out and build a scene. You could evolve into some 3000-person space that’s packed. No booths, no bottles. Just people dancing to a beat. High rollers will show up and lament how there’s no VIP section, but the masses of people will be your strength.

On a smaller scale, this is why I cater to the ones who tip the most and buy the most expensive drinks. This is when I’m hired to just play any genre. Let it be know, cheap drinkers and non-tippers can be annoying. They can be bossy and request music all night. I rather cater to the crowd who requests the “classics” instead of catering to hipsters who don’t tip.

My advice to young aspiring DJs, play the music you like. If you go with the demands of the club (or audience) you will just feel miserable and feel it’s like a ‘pushing the spreadsheet’ job. Which then shows up at the performance and the audience is very receptive.

I’m sure there will always be office-type DJs who play for money and that’s fine, but it’s not art, that’s for sure.

I dunno. From what I’ve seen most successful promoters get a piece of the liquor sales…which is why they would be willing to pull a headliner and yet pay him…as opposed to losing the liquor sales.

I dunno what it’s like in your area, but here a promoter setting the bottle/booth prices would constitute selling liquor without a license. Usually though the really successful promoters will even sit in meetings with owners/managers and help them set prices. After all, if this guy is bringing you a crowd and money, he becomes more a partner in many ways.

Kent Sandvik, post: 34063, member: 3967 wrote: My advice to young aspiring DJs, play the music you like. If you go with the demands of the club (or audience) you will just feel miserable and feel it’s like a ‘pushing the spreadsheet’ job. Which then shows up at the performance and the audience is very receptive.

I’m sure there will always be office-type DJs who play for money and that’s fine, but it’s not art, that’s for sure.

When it comes to playing for money, you sometimes have to find the right song to play after a request. You’re not always doing back to back song requests. Also, there’s an art in finding how to mix in songs with requests.

30 seconds. Wow, the attention span for each generation is getting shorter and shorter. Next gen we are down to 10 seconds, then below 1 second snippets to avoid boring the audience.