Opinion Time
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- This topic has 14 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 6 months ago by
DJ Vintage.
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September 20, 2015 at 10:40 pm #2257611
DJ Vintage
ModeratorWhat’s a “sonic maximizer” doing in your setup? Just the first thing that caught my eye.
Second, if you are going to change the speakers, sell the amp too and go active speakers. The controlling the volume bit doesn’t apply. As any serious PA guy will tell you, you set speakers/amp to 0dB and leave it. All additional volume control is done from your master level on mixer or controller.
My personal favorites (am a mobile DJ too) and have been for many years are the Mackie HD series. I have two HD1221s with ONE HD1801 for sub. Plenty of umph up to 200-250 people easy.
If two mics will do for you in normal situations, there is – imho – only one controller that fits your needs, the Denon MC6000 mk2. 19″ also so you can stick it in your rack.
I’d add a Yamaha MG-series (the 06 or 10 for example) to run everything through. It will give you an additional line in (the other one used by the controller) and two extra mic channels.
Personally I wouldn’t add Behringer gear to my system, especially if the rest of my gear is of (much) higher quality. But that’s just me and my personal experience over the last 15 years.
September 21, 2015 at 5:15 am #2257831Isaiah Furrow
ParticipantI’m totally glad that I read this one, just food for thought, but I have a question… as was asked above, any input on the issue of feedback? I’m thinking of getting something like a DBX Drive Rack unit of sorts… Any input would be most welcomed! Keep shining folks….
September 21, 2015 at 9:09 am #2257931ModeratorI am into sound engineering too. There is really nothing that actually works well. I’ve tried several and they were all pretty much bogus. There must be a good reason that even the biggest high end brands aren’t too keen on developing something like this. You can kill feedback, but it would take more than some piece of automatic gear to do it. It’s lots of work, manually and takes time. There are some automatic units I have seen that come close. But not in a price range that would make sense for a mobile DJ.
Instructing the users well, beforehand, is one of the things that I have found are most effective.
1) How to hold a mic
a) don’t cover the back half of the top (gangtah style), it will make the mic go omni, picking up stuff from the rear too
b) hold it close to and slightly below your mouth, like you are shaving your chin. It’s – imho – the single most important thing you can do to avoid feedback. High INPUT at the mic end means less amplification means less chance of feedback.2) Don’t stand with your back to a speaker but facing them (the mics you want to use are very sensitive to the front, not to the back)
3) Don’t walk in front of speakers (EVER!). That kind of behavior has even professional artist flamed by their engineers.If you happen to have a 31-band graphic EQ, you could use an app on your phone to find the feedback frequencies and dial those back (you’ll most likely do several bands). This WILL affect the sound too. So careful is best.
Most modern digital PA mixers will have that kind of EQ per channel. In which case the effect on the sound is limited to the mic channel being treated. But if the EQ is in the main signal path, ALL sound will be affected. Not a desirable situation.
September 21, 2015 at 10:22 pm #2258351DJ Wyld1
ParticipantI started building this system about 5-ish years ago (long before i found this site).
What’s a “sonic maximizer” doing in your setup? Just the first thing that caught my eye.
I added it about a year ago (still before i found this website) trying to get some unwanted acoustics out of the setup, but I still get a lot of feedback in certain venues type (concrete walls with no sound absorption). I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the biggest problem i think i have is the JBL JRX112’s. Since they are monitor speakers, the highs just end up coming out to clean. They just don’t seem to work well for main speakers.2 mics will do in most situations. However; I would really like to be able to have a total of 6 wireless mics (4 Lavalier, 2 hand-held, and 1 head-set). Since i Don’t have the wireless mics yet; i’d like suggestions here also.
“Personally I wouldn’t add Behringer gear to my system, especially if the rest of my gear is of (much) higher quality. But that’s just me and my personal experience over the last 15 years.”
I haven’t had any issues with the Behringer; it seems to work great (as far as i can tell anyway) it shows me bpm on each channel, pre-fader listen, channel eq, etc. it really has a lot of things i really like about a “DJ Mixer”. Understandably technology has changed and i could probably get away with less; which is one reason i’m looking for suggestions.@ DJ Vintage – I appreciate your suggestions and will look at the gear you suggested. Any more suggestions?
September 22, 2015 at 5:43 am #2258451ParticipantSince I’m looking at changing to a controller based setup; what do you think about using something like a Nady RMX 6 Rackmount 6-Channel Mic/Line Mixer to get additional mic inputs into the system?
It’s only 1U and will allow 6 mics in and then run the mic out to the XLR Mic input on the controller. This replaces the Yamaha mixer and saves the 6U it would take up. I’m not familiar with Nady (or their reputation) and I know there’s other companies that make similar products. Any thoughts here would great!
September 22, 2015 at 9:09 am #2258591ModeratorI don’t know the brand either. Which can mean a lot or nothing LOL.
However, no line inputs (so you’d still need a mixer to tie everything together). Also, tone control only on ALL channels. Personally I’d like to have some more control per channel. I’d call it a volume control unit rather than a mixer.
I’d move up to the MG-10 instead of the 6. I can vouch for the pre-amps, they are great. Really a tad too good for the mixer if you know what I mean. While not 19″ in format, you could set it to the side in a small flightcase.
Alternatively you could look at the Multimix 10 from Alesis. It’s a bit of a hit and miss with Alesis. Some stuff is good, some isn’t. Not so much (sound) quality wise, but more that some things are just too gimmicky. Haven’t used the Multimix so can’t vouch for it personally. It does look way more complete than the Nady. And if you’d use two channels for stereo (backup and controller), you’d have 5 mic channels left. It even has pan, which is nice (pan the mic away from the speaker the person is closest too, another means to diminish feedback). And channel faders.
It has a bluetooth connection too, which brings me back to the gimmicky part. What’s BT doing in serious audio gear, you know. Maybe I am just old skool. But wireless sound never impressed me, unless it’s the new digital stuff that costs about 1000 bucks a connection!Finally, if you have an iPad, you might want to check out the Mackie DL 806 (which would give you two stereo channels and 4 mic. It has EVERYTHING inside. Just a thought. I’ll admit, slightly overkill for your application 😀
I can’t say I share you Behringer experiences. Many times I have been faced with bad connectors, hisses and hums that came out of nowhere, crackling faders and pots or generally just not the sound quality I expected. While not all Behringer gear is bad, the CHANCE of there being something wrong with it I find is just significantly bigger than with more high-end brands. By the way, it’s not just Behringer, other low-end brands suffer the same fate. Behringer is just the biggest among them.
If you don’t need 4-channel on your mixer/controller, the “new” MC4000 from Denon might work as well. Since you’d be losing the Behringer VMX1000, space-wise it would only be a few U extra, BUT it would include jogs and all that would otherwise be in a DN-dual deck.
Quite frankly I have been a big Denon fan, have worked with the 2600 and 4500 series for many years way back when, but those units have nothing on controllers as far as workflow goes. No fault of Denon, but it’s just not possible to put enough control surfaces in such a small unit.
I’d get an MC4000/MC6000, have a small Yamaha to the side to control my mic work (the externals, the DJ mic I’d run through the controller). You can get 19″ brackets for the Yamaha I think. Get a case with a top and front cover. Build all your wireless stuff in there (front access) and your mixer on top. And get a good active speaker set.
Again, just my two cents.
September 22, 2015 at 4:12 pm #2258871ParticipantDenon MC6000MK2 = 6U and MC4000 = 7U. Honestly between the 2; it looks like you get more functionality from the MC6000 and at 1U less space. So between the 2; i’d probably buy the 6000.
However, none of the major MFG’s seem to have a “Dual Mode” w/CD player like the HC4500 where it can be USB to Laptop or switched to CD Mode and provide a back up for the laptop. Also, since i would like to eventually switch to a MacBook and there is no such thing as a “MacBook with a DVD/CD type drive” at all; this would make it extremely difficult to play a CD that someone hands me (although that might be considered a bonus since it then makes it easier to say “i’m sorry, i can’t play CD’s”).
*Case (flight case) – most Cases i see for DJ gear is 11U on the slant. If the controller takes up 6U, that leaves 5U left for a mixer. With the control knobs on the front face of the MC6000; would i need to leave extra space?
I’m guessing i might need to leave 1U of space for cabling and possibly for access to the knobs on the front face. The MG-10 takes up 6.6U of space [Taken from the Yamaha website: “Dimensions (W×H×D): 244 mm x 71 mm x 294 mm (9.6″x 2.8″x 11.6″)”] … 11.6 / 1.75 = 6.628U.
This is where something like the Behringer EURORACK PRO RX1202FX seems to fit the bill. I get it, you don’t like Behringer, but this thing has 8 XLR mic inputs, 2 eq knobs per channel, built in mic effects, individual channel level faders and it’s only 3U (doesn’t seem too bad imo).
If i’m going to buy a “flight” case to shove everything in; i really want to try to fit EVERYTHING in it. Meaning I would like everything to be rack mountable and fit within 1 case (i.e. “ideal configuration”) without breaking the bank on a custom case.
**Speakers:
“My personal favorites (am a mobile DJ too) and have been for many years are the Mackie HD series. I have two HD1221s with ONE HD1801 for sub. Plenty of umph up to 200-250 people easy.”
I really appreciate the suggestion here. I looked on Mackie’s website and they look pretty awesome. The only concern i really have with active speakers is finding a way to supply power to them. Extension cords from the Live Wire power distribution unit? I’m a little reluctant to pull all of my sound “juice” through 1 PDU.The unfortunate reality that i seem to run into (quite often) is that venues don’t seem to take setting up sound equipment when having the electrical ran through the venue; so finding enough power outlets can be fun at times.
Just a side note that the only retailer where i live is guitar center; so i’m a bit limited in selection.
Anyway, i keep looking at the gear you’re telling me to at least consider the possibilities. So, thanks for that!
September 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm #2258971ModeratorYou are welcome. And if the Behringer seems the right choice for you and you feel comfortable with it, by all means.
I use cables like these:
This is 10 meters (30 ft), but they come on a 25m cable reel too. I made my own 25m because it was cheaper that way and because I wanted PowerCon connectors not Schuko.
So I run everything from one central point. I try to work with 380V, I have a 6 channel 220V/16A breakoutbox so I am never depending on what else is on a wall outlet (like the microwave). Unfortunately not every venue has a 380V hook up.
September 22, 2015 at 11:19 pm #2259171bob6397
Participant380V?? Is that a European thing Vintage?? – Standard here is 415V for larger installs (and then 415V 3 Phase if you’re feeling really pro lol…)
DJ Wyld – On the powering them thing, weren’t you powering your amps from the PDU anyway, so running the speakers through it would be almost no difference as you wouldn’t have them any more anyway?
bob6397
September 23, 2015 at 12:48 am #2259181Participant@ Bob6397
“DJ Wyld – On the powering them thing, weren’t you powering your amps from the PDU anyway, so running the speakers through it would be almost no difference as you wouldn’t have them any more anyway?”I have 1 Crown XLS 2500 Amp; so you’re now talking the difference of 1 amp with out-puts to 2 speakers versus each speaker has a separate amp. So instead of 1 amp drawing 4-6a of current; now you have 3 “amps” pulling 4-6a of current for a total of 12-18a (rough guess on how much the current loads are). Most places i have run into so far; i’ve been lucky if i can find 1 120v 20a circuit. Add in a mixer, a controller, lighting control, & wireless mics (if needed) and i’m pretty sure i’d be popping breakers or need a second PDU and there again; running into similar power issues due to my general rule of trying not to plug 2 PDU’s into 1 circuit.
Now, if you guys can tell me another way around this; i’m all ears. Any power load numbers from 1 active speaker might set my mind at ease as well. I didn’t see anything specific on Mackie’s site as to the power draw on the individual speakers.September 23, 2015 at 8:31 am #2259241ModeratorWell … if your three amps are pulling the same amperage each as the single crown, then – by the law of Ohm and a few others – all other things (Voltage in this case) being equal, you would have 3 times the output power too. And since I doubt that is what you are looking for, just dial down the volume (to about a third) and you are on the same power draw from mains.
Another thing to consider is that the higher end active speakers (like the Mackies, but many others as well) have class-D or “digital” amps in them. They are usually more power effective than regular class A, B, A-B or whatever discrete amp. So you get less heat in idle and a few more audio Watts out of the amperes used.
I am with bob on that one, it shouldn’t make a difference in power usage and if it does, it should help before it gets worse.380V?? Is that a European thing Vintage?? – Standard here is 415V for larger installs (and then 415V 3 Phase if you’re feeling really pro lol…)
@bob: yes, we have a name for it too here “kracht-stroom”. It’s also 3-phase. So I am guessing it’s the same as your 415V thing (I actually believe it is 400V these days, just as what was once 220V is now 230V).September 23, 2015 at 10:02 am #2259251ParticipantSo i just pulled the specs for the Crown and in 8 ohm “dual” (standard operating mode) it runs around 440 watts (divide by 120) = 3.7 amp draw.
The Mackie 1221’s spec sheet has the input power listed as 120 volts @ 200 watts for a 1.7 amp draw and the Mackie 1801 has power input listed as 120 volts @ 300 watts for a 2.5 amp draw. So that’s a total of 5.9 amp load assuming the numbers provided by the websites are accurate.
Now that i’ve slept on it and did the math based on the spec sheets; i feel much better about changing over.
@ DJ Vintage – Are those “pro cables” available for 120 v? I’d be very interested to see your electrical config.
September 23, 2015 at 2:20 pm #2259411ParticipantThose sort of cables are available with whatever connectors you like in them – I know someone who builds them custom with relative ease.. I tend to buy mine from http://www.terralec.co.uk though – UK based retailer, decent prices and superb customer service 🙂
Example: http://www.terralec.co.uk/dmx_leads__cable/iecxlr_combined_cable/31625_p.html
bob6397
September 27, 2015 at 3:46 am #2261101ModeratorYeah, I made mine myself too, because I wanted PowerCon connectors. The cable can be bought per meter/ft and since it supports 220V it will most certainly support 110V.
Since the sub is a bonus (you are not running a sub now with only one amp), you can only compare the 1221s with the passive/Crown setup and the Mackies come out on top with even less power consumption (3.4 vs 3.7A).
Again, i try to take the 3-fase 380/415V option when available, giving me 3-6 groups unpolluted by other gear in the venue.
I will typically run PA on one group, lights on a second and the rest of my gear on a third. If that is not possible, I try to find the “cleanest” two groups in the house. Lights on 1, all sound gear including PA on the other.
Occasionally if a hum (ground loop) is introduced, I will put the PA on the same outlet as my primary DJ gear (i.e. laptop and controller) to see if that alleviates the problem. -
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