How to keep discontinued/no longer supported gear?

I’m curious…is this purely a Mac issue, or all around?

I remember when Traktor Final Scratch was discontinued, it only meant there would be no more software updates. Things still worked fine up until I hit a new Windows version that was incompatible, which took time. Even then it’s amazing how much old software I could get running on newer versions of Windows.

When Torq was discontinued, it was the same story. No more software updates or new gear. I only quit using it due to my desire to purchase a system that wouldn’t be discontinued. I’m curious though if that MK1 would work on Windows now, or would it also hit the driver issues problem? I’ve heard many times how much Traktor stuff doesn’t play well with Macs. Maybe Serato or Rekordbox are the ideal solutions for Mac users?

In any case, I’d probably look around to see if any open-source advocates perhaps tried making a new driver…or consider selling your MK1 and upgrading.

Well, class compliance don’t mean support. I use a Denon DN-X1600 with Traktor Scratch Pro 2 for some years now. Denons Knowledge Base states this device is an class compliant audio device. I never needed a driver. http://denondj.com/kb/article/1747

Does it work in macOS Sierra? I expected it should, but guess what happened after the upgrade: My MacBook Pro recognizes it as connected, but not as an audio device. In Traktor I can use it as MIDI controller but not as audio device anymore. There must have been a change in CoreAudio by Apple. Denons Knowledge Base confirms that it is not supoorted anymore with Sierra: http://denondj.com/kb/article/2167

Long story short: I will downgrade to El Capitan and stay there unless Denon will offer an update to support Sierra or I buy new gear in future.

Slightly off-topic follow-up on previous reply.

For starters I am NOT a Mac fanboy. The only reason I ever bought one is because of DJ-ing. All my other PCs are, have been and will be Windows machines.

That said, for many reasons the Mac does please me more than my previous Windows laptops have done for DJ-ing purpose (dual-boot, DJ-optimized and all). While I am sure there is a component of “doing whatever we can do to sell you more Apple gear” going on, the same is true for Microsoft and Windows. Yes, Microsoft makes no hardware, but have charged hard bucks for many years for OS upgrades that you didn’t officially need, but if you didn’t get them you could get into compatibility issues with newer software and hardware. They are not shy of trying anything that will bring in more Windows dollars even while customers are perfectly happy with what they currently have either.

The flip side of the closed Apple Eco-system is that stuff would work, because they did not have to take the entire world into account designing something, nor did they have to do the legacy thing any longer than they felt like it, meaning newer and better technologies could come in quicker. The lifespan of hardware supporting the latest OS versions is, by the look of it, shorter than that of Windows machines.
While an old intel-based laptop might not run very fast, you could usually install the Windows version you wanted, even if it was below official specs. The only thing Windows refuses to do is let you install a 64-bit version on a 32-bit machine, which is a good thing LOL.
OSX (and now macOS) did just stop allowing you to install a newer version on a machine that was under-specced in their opinion. How much the “sell them a new laptop” idea played a role there I don’t know, there is something to be said for wanting to prevent under-performing Macbooks because of too much strain from recent OS updates. And you could still continue using the old version, it would just not try to upgrade to the new release.

As with all brands, at some point support for older software (and hardware) seizes to exist. While this might last longer with Windows, the risks of non-support are bigger too. The biggest part of updates (not upgrades) and support packs are security related and it’s obvious that security issues are more relevant for Windows than for Apple environments. This is a debatable point of course, but in general I think most people will use a Mac as is, while nobody in his right mind would contemplate using a Windows machine without virus and malware protection.

Both enivronments have pro’s and con’s, as a bit of an IT guy I hate the closed Apple system, I like to be in charge over my machines and that is not an easy thing to do on a Mac (although it CAN be done), but for some things like DJ-ing, they truly have great gear that offers more than the competition, at least in my opinion.

On-topic again:

Compatibility is always a combination of hardware and software. Cooperating vendors are needed to get and keep things playing smoothly together. As soon as one vendor withdraws cooperation, it becomes exponentially hard for the other vendor to keep the support up. A good example are the latest controllers, where in the old days doing a simple midi-mapping would have you covered (something even users could do, point in case the Traktor Bible website for example), now you see that software that had HID support for all Pioneer gear have to go through Pioneer to get it working for newer models (coincidence that this non-compliance started with the advent of competing RekordBox DJ software?). NI-gear just doesn’t work as nicely with non-Traktor software as it does with Traktor, because Traktor is not forthcoming with support towards software vendors to make that happen. All the new screens on some controllers need extra effort from both manufacturers to create a working mapping/connection.

I just bought the MCX8000, which is fully ready for Serato support. I use Mixvibes Cross though and so-far a mapping has not been made. But if one is ever made, Denon has to put forth some support to Mixvibes. This could be as easy as supplying them with an early model MCX8000 and the necessary info. From that point on it’s up to the software vendor. If Mixvibes have to buy every single controller that comes out for that purpose and don’t get the info up front, they will always be late and or even unable to provide the mappings they’d like. Same goes for VDJ. They have a midi-mapping for the MXC8000 (might have some more money to go out and buy every controller launched), but obviously without the screens working.

Oh well, just observations from an old hand. Good things SL1200s still work as they always did (just gone up in price to 5000 bucks a piece LOL).

First class compliant or not issue:

With Macs this is usually done with the software (OS) since the hardware is always class compliant. (A USB port will always be USB and have full power etc. while in many consumer PC laptops you do get multiple USB ports, but only 1 or 2 will be class compliant… which is fun…)

However since their Core Services are very hardware dependent, they have to support all versions and protocols of chipsets. Some of those chipsets also support multiple versions (downward compatibility).

Now all of this sounds pretty cool, however (in case of that Denon player) in some cases a player or controller needs an older protocol (say USB 1.1). Now if the CoreAudio developers drop support for that protocol version (even though the hardware would support it) it will no longer be recognized. Usually in Apples case this is however only with very old hardware, they support protocols and formats usually for at least 8 years. So in some cases this might also be the manufacturers fault (well USB 1 is enough…) implementing an deprecated feature… so blame cannot be solely given to one party. Denon thankfully have caught up with this and all their current gear is state of the art.

Non compliance means in any case you need drivers. In Windows you will always need drivers 🙂
However Windows problems can be 2 fold: It can be the hardware: there are many chipsets especially in cheap and AMD devices that are only “sort of compliant”… so the hardware can cause a driver issue. On the other hand driver can get outdated and no longer supported.
Windows 10 has even nicer feature: Mega-Updates. Now Windows 10 compatible does not mean it runs on Windows 10. Those Mega-Updates can alter main components and hence cause drivers to stop working (the AMD grafix driver issue with the last monster update…).

However yes Windows OS major releases are further apart than MacOS (yearly) and hence general compatibility is easier to achieve once you have a driver.

Which is better? You decide 🙂

I am not going into NI and how they support stuff, I switched from Traktor to Serato 6 years ago and never looked back.

My very very old Novation Twitch is still working perfectly with new MacBook (not yet Sierra) and Serato DJ newest version.