Hey

After sending the above message , I came across something called “time coded vinyl”. If I’m understanding what it is , it maybe what I was searching for. So , digital tracks are encoded to the “vinyl” , I assume that as you select a track from the corresponding “virtual deck” in the software , like Virtual DJ. Then the track is sent to the time coded vinyl? Also in terms of pitch adjustment, I would be able to use the pitch adjustment on my tech 1200’s , and the Virtual DJ software would detect? Also came across the “hercules rmx” , which by the looks of it also has pitch adjustment. This seems like it would be a good option , when I’m not taking my techs. Question I have about the hercules, is how responsive are the pitch adj sliders? How fine adjustment %’s are there? I read that on units that have a single master pitch slider
(wtf? lol) . that the adjustments are not very fine. Thanks, think that’s it for now 😉

Hauzer, post: 13566, member: 1346 wrote: Hey Sumir, I wouldn’t start with the midi-controller but with the software. For me the only two professional programs are Serato and Traktor. Serato is mainly used in North America and some parts of the UK, Traktor has became the standard for the rest of Europe. Serato is almost always used for timecode vinyl/cd. Traktor has two products, Traktor Scratch, it’s the big competitor of Serato and Traktor Pro, totally aimed on midi controllers.

I prefer and use Traktor because it works better for me (more options and really good digital technology), I don’t use timecode but only midi controllers. The controllers that I’ve purchased are meant for Traktor and therefore work well with the software. So I recommend you to first find somebody or a store that uses/sells the different software types. Try them out, make a decision from there in terms of software and go from there in your search of good midi controllers. After testing software you will also know how you want to dj from now on (timecode or totally midi).

At this picture you see a timecode setup: http://herr-z-berger.de/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/ts_setup_05.jpg. You can see two decks, a mixer, a soundcard and a laptop. How does timecode work? With the software and the soundcard you get two vinyls that haven’t got any music on it, only a really simple tone in one rhythm. Via rca the turntabel is wired to your soundcard. The soundcard reads the tempo of the vinyl, so if you move de pitch or perform a scratch, your soundcard wil read that and will give that information to your laptop/software. In the software a track is played, the software pitches the track when it gets a signal from the soundcard that the vinyl is being pitched. It works exactly the same with cd’s. Hope this makes it a bit more clear.

If you don’t want to buy turntables/cd-players and not even a mixer, then you can choose for a complete midi setup. A midi controller on it self works exactly the same as for instance a keyboard on your computer. Every knob sends it’s own information and in a so called midi-map you can add function to every knob. Example: when you press the letter ‘w’ on your keyboard in word the letter ‘w’ will turn up. The nice thing of midi is that we can change that for everything we want, so now we can press the letter ‘w’ on the keyboard and the letter ‘f’ or digit ‘4’ appears on the screen. This is exactly what is happening with midi controllers, they can only send an d receive digital commands.

Thats why you always need a soundcard with it to be able to dj. Some midi controllers has got one build in to the controllers, some don’t. So thats the first thing to watch. After that you can check the amount of knobs, faders etc on it. Some controllers are specifically made for a certain type of software, but keep in mind that you can change the meaning of every button! Do you want to use FX? Make sure there are enough rotarys on the controller. Do you want to use a lot of cue points/samples/loops, make sure there are enough buttons on it. Do you want to scratch? Make sure the controller has got jogwheels on it. Do you want a highly precise pitchcontrol? Make sure there are faders on it and preferably faders that are meant to be used as pitch (move more stiff then a normal volume fader).

So a lot of questions to ask yourself before deciding on software and controller!

in the last several hrs (now 4 am here), I’ve dug around a lot more, at serato, rane, and traktor’s website. I downloaded the demo version of Traktor, & free to download Serato Live. Spent a few hrs on youtube, watching various demos of the softwares, their controllers, DJ mag tech awards for them and so on. So I’ll be either go with Traktor or Serato Itch , which seems to be Serato’s midi/internal based software package. And stick with Serato Live for using with my old system via time code. Saw a whole video on youtube of how it works. That shows what you mention below in the next paragraph. I did play around with the traktor software , and [U]as I mentioned a couple posts back in this thread . I’m looking for precision pitch control functionality in a midi control, for when I’m not using the time-coded system in a set.[/U] . What I noticed straight away with traktor , is the lack of precision with the pitch adj. I have my old gear from my vinyl days, to set up with the Serato Live Scratch unit, so the serato will be my first purchase. So the essential issue I’m facing now, and would like help with, is finding a midi controller for use without the timecoded vinyl, which has precise , and as close to vinyl deck pitch control. FX I would not use much. As I said before , the midi controllers I was looking at did not have pitch sliders, or have a high percentage gap. And according to what I read, a controller requires a minimum 14 bit . Hope this is all clear, bit tired ;). Anyone out there from my era ? hehe I appreciate the input and time , but judging by the answer given here, it seems you have less experience using vinyl systems. I could be wrong. Anyone coming from a vinyl spinning background, knows what I mean with precision control pitch adj , as is found on the staple technic 1200’s. preciate your time though man 🙂 tyty

vineoak, post: 13574, member: 1029 wrote: lets clear up some mis-understandings you have.here’s my analogue setup.
http://www.djresource.eu/Gearbase/gear/1073/
http://it.audiofanzine.com/piatto-per-dj/technics/SL-1210-MK5/medias/a.play,m.260797.html
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=denon dn s5000 pictures&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1920&bih=1025&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JP82SVWgYdInxM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bombhiphop.com/newbomb/bombpages/equipment.html&docid=zDPQjZo7wXZG8M&imgurl=http://www.bombhiphop.com/newbomb/bombpages/images/DN-S5000.jpg&w=432&h=496&ei=kgIlT-KVPIq20QXN3eHOCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=678&vpy=133&dur=2522&hovh=241&hovw=209&tx=119&ty=149&sig=111492122379724213569&page=1&tbnh=153&tbnw=133&start=0&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
(this site covers technics+denon dn s5000+serato)

right lets explain.the 2 turntables and mixer is the standard analogue only setup which was pre digital.now here’s where it gets slightly complicated for the uninformed digital newbie.lets delve into the digital world.it started out with companies like stanton(final scratch)introducing a thing called time coded vinyl.this was a system that had a little box with inputs and outputs which interfaced your pc via usb to your analogue setup.(decks and mixer).this setup comes with timecoded vinyl 12″records X2 AND 2 timecoded cd’s X2.now lets explain the extent of how much this digital setup functions.the best way to describe this follows.imagine taking your record bag full of vinyl and sticking it in the bin.(you have prior to this backed up your collection to an external hard drive or direct to your pc/laptop).the second thing to take into account is this comes with a software program called serato.the program has 2 decks which mimic the movements you make on your turntable platters.now i have to say this setup is the bastard son of the digital setups being used today.what do i mean you say?.well lets explain.i class this setup as an analogue/digital hybrid.the pc is the storage and visual medium for your mixing.but you still are using hardware to create the mix.such things like bpm matching does not apply to serato as you are still using the old pitch sliders on your turntables.now there is a difference when you use some cdj’s.they do have some digital functions like sync /bpm matching.(depends on make and model).now as sumir asked about sync matching ill explain.see link below.
http://www.djtechtools.com/2011/05/10/review-denon-mc6000/
now imagine your analogue setup with my gemini bpm500 and the crossfader has gone or the unit is faulty and you decide to get a new mixer.the denon mc 6000 will replace the old mixer no problem.this is because it can work as a standalone analogue mixer.notice the pitch controls.(imagine a clock dial they are located at 1 o’clock in relation to jog wheel b or 1 o’clock in relation to jog wheel a(left of low/mid/high knobs).sync but does not apply here.thats serato described i think…if i missed out anything let me know.

now lets go to digital with the denon mc6000.this uses the same principle as serato,just the interface is different.the pc and storage is the same.traktor or virtual dj le editions come bundled with the denon mc6000 depending on region.this unit comes with a switch where you can go pc/int.the pc goes to pc mode where the software mixing interface is pc orientated.mixer controls software on screen.internal mode relies on how you manipulate your hardware(decks etc).in pc mode there is an auto sync mode for bpm matching-i do stress this point for sumir that is an additional function that does not have to be used.manual pitch via sliders can still be used.

and finally see my other hardware below.
http://serato.com/articles/scratchlive/1997/how-to-use-the-denon-dn-hc4500-with-scratch-live

this is purely a digital controller.not for external setup.have’nt used it yet so ill have to see which software it works with.

my last point.i know serato can be used with ableton via bridging software.hope this post helps and please rate it.thanks.
http://serato.com/thebridge

When i get over to Guitar Center, I’ll play around with the Denon ya mentioned. Pretty caught up to speed on how things started with serato, and how it works etc. I’ll take to the guys down there too, compare some models. Seein as how you’re using your vinyl decks (it feels funny to have to type “vinyl decks” lol..) , I think ya know where I’m coming from with precision control. Now the serato , I have to say I didn’t know the hardware was made by Rane! I love Rane, my MP 22 has with stood abuse, and then some. That alone is a huge selling point, reliability , just like the tech 12 workhorses.
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Yeah i’m just gonna say pointblank, I can’t fathom the interest behind synching . Asides from tool to assist with learning beat matching, until the ears are developed. It sort of takes the …mixing…out of ..well , mixing LOL. I can see a time down the road when voice commands are given “mix track A with track B”, auto mix sets in , and the person is a DJ now BAM! Producers create their own music, from a-z, all the way through, and could care less about the title , at all. All others do not create their own music, but are quick as hell to run into chat rooms calling themselves “producers”. DJ’s mix tracks from 2 different decks (be it wonderful yummy vinyl, or todays mediums), from a-z, with no shortcuts, and don’t give a rat’s *** about the title of “DJ”. All others , download some software, click here , and there a few times, auto-everything, zero effort, and no skill. Then run around and call themselves “DJ’s”. …if dj stands for disc jockey..what does button jockey ..ah nvm LOL . I’ve been seeing a lot of what just talked about in chat rooms, going back years. Most these kids have no desire to put in actual effort, and zero respect for those that put in years of serious time, and effort.

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