Home 2023 Forums DJing Software Harmonic Mixing

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  • #41964
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    LOL … yes. You can find lots of manuals and vids on the use of the Camelot Wheel (this is where the 1A through 12B listing comes from).

    The short version:
    * you can always go from inner ring (A’s) to the same number on the outer ring (B’s). So, 7A to 7B or vice versa
    * you can always go 1 up or down in the same ring. So, 7A to 6A or 8A.
    * Going up in number (usually) is an increase in energy. Subsequently lowering the number is decreasing energy.
    * You can use two number jumps for effect. Read up more about how and when to use this technique.
    * You can go diagonally. I think it is back from inner ring and forward from outer ring (but could be other way around). So from 7A to 6B or from 8B to 9A. Again, read up on the how and why.

    Hope that helps.

    Greetinx,
    C.

    p.s. a real good place to start reading is Beyond Beatmatching written by the guy that makes Mixed In Key. Google it!

    #41965
    Mitch Hambling
    Participant

    Chuck van Eekelen, post: 42121, member: 2756 wrote: LOL … yes. You can find lots of manuals and vids on the use of the Camelot Wheel (this is where the 1A through 12B listing comes from).

    The short version:
    * you can always go from inner ring (A’s) to the same number on the outer ring (B’s). So, 7A to 7B or vice versa
    * you can always go 1 up or down in the same ring. So, 7A to 6A or 8A.
    * Going up in number (usually) is an increase in energy. Subsequently lowering the number is decreasing energy.
    * You can use two number jumps for effect. Read up more about how and when to use this technique.
    * You can go diagonally. I think it is back from inner ring and forward from outer ring (but could be other way around). So from 7A to 6B or from 8B to 9A. Again, read up on the how and why.

    Hope that helps.

    Greetinx,
    C.

    p.s. a real good place to start reading is Beyond Beatmatching written by the guy that makes Mixed In Key. Google it!

    thanks, so far ive just been doing going 1 up or one down, unless im mixing outro to intro, or some other transitions. but ill look into it

    #41967
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Just imagine it like a little T (regular or upside down) where the playing tracks key is where crossbar and leg meet, with the crossbar in the same ring and the leg in the same number.

    One word of caution here. Just that MiK says songs aren’t compatible doesn’t mean they really aren’t and also just cause they are supposed to match in key doesn’t mean they always will. Let your ears be the final judge.

    If a song is playing and I think of a song that sounds like a good match in my mind, I really don’t let the matching/non-matching of the key worry me. I stick it in a deck and listen on my cans. That is where I make my decision.

    DJ-ing, even with today’s technologies like elastic beatgridding, sync, quantize, snap, harmonic keys, energy levels, etx., can’t be captured in formula’s.

    You can’t throw all the rules in a big box and tell a system to DJ. It’s a DJ’s ears, his/her ability to read an audience and music selection skills that make or break a party. NEVER the technical skills. Those are only tools to help accomplish things, expand creativity and such.

    Good example: Yesterday I was “evaluated” by a guy. I told him that I felt it was technically harder to mix since all the music was like 60s and 70s rock, so little beatmatching and you can’t use filters and fx on every transition. His words were “I really don’t look at technical skills, as long as you as a person or your music selection or ideally both can get an audience moving,that is what counts”.

    I know you are reading up, learning stuff and working hard on your techniques. And that is good. I think every DJ should strive for a certain level of technical competence. However, you have to be aware what the most important skills are and keep an eye open to see what needs improving in that area.

    The only place you will ever truly learn how to DJ is by playing out and watching how people react to you as a person and your music choices and adapting to their reaction.

    So, keep up the good work and try to play out as much as you can. Don’t try to be perfect, try to learn as much from the experience as you can. Perfection comes as a result.

    Greetinx,
    C.

    #41969
    SwingOut
    Participant

    Damn Chuck, you’re like a DJ guru, you know everything! o.O

    #41971
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Thanks. One of the (few :D) perks of being 50 years old and having been at the game for 36 8-).

    Greetinx,
    C.

    #41974
    Mitch Hambling
    Participant

    I know you are reading up, learning stuff and working hard on your techniques. And that is good. I think every DJ should strive for a certain level of technical competence. However, you have to be aware what the most important skills are and keep an eye open to see what needs improving in that area.

    The only place you will ever truly learn how to DJ is by playing out and watching how people react to you as a person and your music choices and adapting to their reaction.

    yea, its not the easiest thing to do at 15. Givin that i mix mainly electronic music and kids in my grade havent really gotten to the EDM stage of partying. I have no party’s to mix at, clubs are usually 18/21+ so all ive got is me and my laptop, speakers, and controller. I know what you mean by not being perfect, and focusing on the mood of the music. But nowadays, youve got to have some pretty good mixing skills to get into clubs and what not. i dont really focus on being 100% perfect, as much as making the mixes sound interesting and surprising to keep everyone interested. It still seems to me that whenever i watch someone mix on CDJ’S, their mixes are so fluent and contain 0 mistakes and you cant even tell when there is a transition. I guess a lot of it is just practiicing though. the 7 months ive been mixing i have definitely improved a lot

    #41977
    SwingOut
    Participant

    Mitch Hambling, post: 42131, member: 7942 wrote: yea, its not the easiest thing to do at 15.

    Same here bud :). The thing I’m doing now is getting my name out there; making a fb page, recording my mixes, letting everyone know that I’m a DJ and would love some feedback. Totally recommend you do the same thing if you’re not doing it already.

    #41978
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Well Mitch,

    Sometimes if the mountain doesn’t come to Muhammed, Muhammed must go to the mountain. Perhaps you should figure out WHAT the kids in your age group DO like to party to and start integrating that in what you do. Trust me, playing school parties and birthdays, even if the music isn’t your first pick, is a great place to get experience and acquire a fan base. The latter being a major asset in getting into the clubs. If you can offer yourself at a club and say you are bringing 50-100 people in on a quite night, you are king :-).

    Obviously I don’t live where you do, so I can’t say for sure, but you have been able to read many stories on here from DJs that managed to get into clubs. Not because they were technical magicians, but because they knew how to get on the good side of the people that make the decisions about who is gonna play.

    Good to hear you are ever improving. Keep it up.

    Greetinx,
    C.

    #41985
    Mitch Hambling
    Participant

    Chuck van Eekelen, post: 42135, member: 2756 wrote: Well Mitch,

    Sometimes if the mountain doesn’t come to Muhammed, Muhammed must go to the mountain. Perhaps you should figure out WHAT the kids in your age group DO like to party to and start integrating that in what you do. Trust me, playing school parties and birthdays, even if the music isn’t your first pick, is a great place to get experience and acquire a fan base. The latter being a major asset in getting into the clubs. If you can offer yourself at a club and say you are bringing 50-100 people in on a quite night, you are king :).
    C.

    well, i see what you mean. but kids in my grade dont really understand the art of dj’ing. so they couldnt care less. I know some upperclassmen that are into edm and like having people mix. Ill be mixing at my schools homecoming next year, but i dont know. Im not into mixing at my grades party quite yet. I have plans for throwing some mini partys in the future. I also have some friends in holland that could arrange for me to get in a club once i get a little bit more club material, skill wise. I plan to try to find a decent small club by the age of 16 to start mixing at every weekend or something

    #41986
    Mitch Hambling
    Participant

    SwingOut, post: 42134, member: 12013 wrote: Same here bud :). The thing I’m doing now is getting my name out there; making a fb page, recording my mixes, letting everyone know that I’m a DJ and would love some feedback. Totally recommend you do the same thing if you’re not doing it already.

    im not a huge fan of the whole facebook page thing and what not. I find it a bit unnecessary and cheesy. I just get the word out by mixing, and telling my friends, and i have help from my older brothers in college.

    #41992

    I use harmonic mixing a lot but not all of the time. Shake things up — perfect harmonic mixes every single time get boring real quick.
    But when you do mix harmonically:
    – Don’t be afraid to change the key to match the playing song. On the camelot wheel, 5 steps is equal to one semitone. So you can mix a 4A track (Fm) with either a 11A track (F#m, pitched down -1) or 9A track (Em, pitched up +1). You can usually change the pitch one or two semitones and people won’t notice, but use caution. Past two semitones, the audio quality will degrade significantly. Also if you do that, remember to keep in mind that you pitched the track for your next transition, otherwise you will get an ugly result. You can always use breaks or buildups in the music to restore key, sometimes with a dramatic effect. Experiment with this.
    (Also, if you’re using Traktor, right click on the plus or minus signs that appear when you hover over the key knob and change the resolution to “Fine” — this will allow you to change the key in steps of one semitone exactly, rather than two)
    – Even if two songs have the same Camelot code, they may not mix well! Some songs have ugly harmonic clashes and there’s nothing you can do about it. Use your cue channels/headphones, it’s absolutely essential. Harmonic mixing isn’t magic, as others have said before me, trust your ears.

    It’s also a good idea to really study the wheel. Don’t worship it, but know it like the back of your hand. Learn which keys do what. In my experience, I’ve found that 4A (Fm) is very popular, while 11A is often used for moombahton. A lot of great trap tunes are in 1A because it’s a very powerful minor key. There are some great dnb songs in 7A. Learning where your songs are on the wheel and what sort of emotions they evoke will help you control the mood of your set, and keep your mix from becoming mechanical.
    And of course, sometimes it’s best to not mix harmonically. Abrupt transitions can grab your audiences attention and make a good DJ set a great one.

    Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I love harmonic mixing, use it all the time. It’s really easy to learn how to do but it takes time to master. Hope this helps.

    #41995
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Mitch Hambling, post: 42142, member: 7942 wrote: … but kids in my grade dont really understand the art of dj’ing. so they couldnt care less. …

    Tell you a little ‘secret’? Most of the audience anywhere doesn’t care about “the art of dj-ing”. Even hardcore Tiesto fans go to see their hero because of the music he plays, the energy and mood he creates. And yes, he needs his skills to do that, but the order is exactly that, first the music, mood and energy, then the skills.

    And trust me that Tiesto did not start out running full-house gigs because his name was on the “poster”. There was a point where he too had to start playing his first gigs.

    On a more mundane level, where people go to a party – not see an artist performing in concert (which is like 95% of the time) – people really, really, really don’t go home after a party they attended saying “wow, did you notice the way that DJ transitioned from track X to track Y?” or “god, I love the way that guy used the fabulous echo in his DJ-ing software” or even “such a love harmonic mix today” :).

    All they remember is “that chick I danced with”, the guy falling over drunk on the dancefloor and stuff like that. If you are lucky they will comment to each other that they had a good time and enjoyed the music.

    I hear where you are coming from, and waiting to be old enough to get into clubs can be frustrating. I was 14 when I started and I did the school parties (and trust me, I had NOWHERE near your kind of training/practice/knowledge/gear that you already have), birthdays at peoples home and all that. I was happy if people at the party where happy. All else took a backseat to that. Result: I got asked back to other parties for exactly THAT reason, people knew I could make their guest feel happy.

    And I can already hear you moan “but times have changed!” and yes they have, big time.

    Still, there are two ways to go about this.

    1) You can either watch the half empty glass and struggle away in your bedroom, getting proficient at the skills you can practice in solitude and by the time you finally make it to the club you’ll only be able to do “your” thing and have to hope that the crowd likes your thing because you will be clueless when it comes to shaping your set in a live gig environment (there is a reason even the most seasoned DJ takes at least twice the amount of music as he really needs, room to adjust to the crowd).
    2) You can look at the half full glass and actively look for those opportunities where you CAN actually do your thing and enjoy the experience, try to get your audience in a happy place and learn about what works and what doesn’t playing for real people. Then by the time you are ready to hit the clubs, you will be able to tell the club owners that you have been playing “out” weekly for the last few years. You can perhaps show a short video clip of you DJ-ing with a bunch of happy faces dancing in front of you. You can maybe have all kinds of positive feedback on your FACEBOOK page (get over it dude!) from people that saw you play that you can show them.

    My advise to you would be to take the half full glass approach. Phil has said it on many occasions on the blog: nobody is gonna come out and hand you a career as a DJ. You are not gonna be “discovered” by sitting in your bedroom. You have to be out there doing your thing. Being young gives you an edge like it does in sports. Extra years to practice AND PLAY!
    Don’t waste those years just practicing and not playing.

    Greetinx,
    C.

    #41999
    SwingOut
    Participant

    Chuck van Eekelen, post: 42152, member: 2756 wrote:

    DJ Guru Chuck strikes again! 😀 Believe me Mitch, this guy really knows what he’s talking about! His wisdom is like the bible to me ^^.

    #42001
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    SwingOut, post: 42156, member: 12013 wrote: DJ Guru Chuck strikes again! 😀 Believe me Mitch, this guy really knows what he’s talking about! His wisdom is like the bible to me ^^.

    Ohhhhh STOP IT! Too much, you are making me blush, so stop! No really, keep going! 😎

    #42006
    Tommy Hear Me
    Participant

    Dunno if this stuff is any use..
    http://www.cyberflotsam.com/Music_ChordFamilies1.htm
    http://www.circle-of-fifths.co.uk/

    Read the “How To” on the Circle of fifths and play about with what you get.

    I have a lot more but they are on the works computer will post more later

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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