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Choosing between Serato and Traktor – specific questions/functionality

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  • December 18, 2015 at 4:53 pm #2322671
    deathy
    Participant

    I certainly have to agree with Chuck on Izotope… if they made the effects, then they’re going to be technically solid. While I own Serato due to picking up a Terminal Mix 8, I haven’t used it enough to actually have practical experience with the effects.

    Don’t agree about third party plugins, though… there’s a logical flaw in your argument. Just because not all third party plugins are as good as the built-ins doesn’t mean all third party plugins are not good (by supporting VSTs, for example, one could also easily use Izotope effects that weren’t developed specifically for their software). This is the “Composition/Division” logical fallacy. However, as some of y’all know, I’m a lot more willing to get my (virtual) hands dirty than the average user.

    I’m not a real serious effects user anyway… the styles I play tend to really not need effects, nor even leave a whole lot of room for them, so I try to be real subtle with them.

    December 18, 2015 at 5:33 pm #2322721
    Pavi
    Participant

    Yes, I agree that it generally comes down to personal preference about what FX are “better” than others and as you say, an audience isn’t usually going to differentiate between what’s used and what isn’t or compare different effects.

    I recognize there’s a difference though between an audience’s attention depending on the context and the style. I used to DJ in chillout rooms, playing deep ambient mixes. People would be lying around on cushions and often intently listening/journeying to the music – so I felt subtle FX could make a big difference. I used them sparingly but relevantly, if that makes sense.

    However playing say a trance set to hundreds of people dancing in a main room, then a subtle effect is less noticeable as the audience are in quite a different place, and the music already contains a lot of effects itself.

    December 18, 2015 at 5:54 pm #2322751
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    @Deathy: I don’t think I said that all third party fx were bad. I have used plenty and some are awesome. But even some of the awesome ones are hardly plug and play and require loads of knowledge and work to get to work to the max of their abilities.
    VDJ let’s you tweak a lot of things yourself and it makes sense that they adopted a VST plug in strategy. Serato is going the other way and wants DJ to worry about nothing. If it has the Serato stamp of approval, it works, out of the box. The point I tried to make is that if you open up to third party software you lose the “it WILL work” security you have when using built-in FX. And for the vast majority of DJs who do NOT want to deal with that, that is not optimal. Hence my statement that NOT having third-party plug in options is a good thing. Not because there are no good plug ins available, there are. But because plug ins (can) come with their own set of problems. Problems most DJs don’t want.

    Most, I think we can agree, just want to fire up the software and hardware and have it work. They think it’s enough to learn the tool and not worry too much about the workings of the tool itself.

    The profit of having plug ins imho would be offset by the trouble that such third party integration could bring.

    I use Mixvibes Cross and it’s no secret that one thing high on users wishlist there is an increase in FX quality. Again, I use it very sparingly and truly as an FX, not as sound enhancement tools, so no biggy for me. And while they are not the best FX in town, they suffice for my purposes. Should they not meet my expectations I’d have to to look for other software (probably Serato), but I’d still be looking at workflow first (cause that is relevant 100% of the time) and FX second.

    December 18, 2015 at 5:56 pm #2322771
    deathy
    Participant

    “While they don’t let you use third party plug ins (which is a good thing, trust me, I have used many as a sound engineer and not all plug ins are created equal)”

    You say not supporting third party plug ins is a good thing, because not all plug ins are created equal.

    Not meaning to misconstrue what you are saying, but that’s how that read to me.

    December 19, 2015 at 9:20 am #2323891
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Yeah, I can see how that confuses.

    The intention of that statement was two-fold:
    1) To the untrained ear, it’s hard to know before you buy if you have a good plug-in or not. There are literally thousands out there after all and as I said “not all created equal”. If you know what you are doing, you will be able to pick out the diamonds, but that is not a certainty for most DJs.
    2) Apart from actually quality of the plug-in, the ease of installation and use is definitely sometimes less than great. I have had plug-ins that took hours to get working properly. Again not a problem if you are willing to spend the time and effort and have the knowledge for it, but for our average starting DJ reader, not a situtation they are looking forward to.

    So, imho, that brings to conclusion that !for DJ purposes by all but the most picky of DJs, especially those in the early stages of their DJ career! it IS a good thing not to have the third-party option available as it can lead to lots of potential problems without the guarantee that you will get something that is actually better than the built-in FX (especially in the case of Izotope within Serato).

    By the same token, a DAW can not be taken seriously if it doesn’t support third-party plugins. DAW users are either serious producers or certified sound engineers and may be expected to have the knowledge to a) decide if a plugin is right for them and b) tackle any problems they might run into with them.

    Hope that clears up my standpoint on plugins in general and for our specific audience.

    December 19, 2015 at 9:43 am #2323901
    deathy
    Participant

    Yeah, totally. I could see a compromise where a DJ software might have an “Expert Mode” where it allows you to get a lot more down and dirty with it, but the target audience for that could certainly be small enough that it may not be worth the trouble to invest in developing.

    It can be difficult sometimes for me to really have a good perspective on things from the more typical new DJ’s position since I composed music for a few decades before I started DJing.

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