Affordable rotary mixer?

We need to make sure the “digital is safe from bad cables” folks don’t give everyone a false sense of security.

To be clear, I am not the world’s authority on “streaming audio over USB”, but here’s what I understand (clipped form my reading on the topic); http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio
“USB Audio
USB Audio uses isochronous, interrupt and control transfers. All audio data is transferred over isochronous transfers; interrupt transfers are used to relay information regarding the availability of audio clocks; control transfers are used used to set volume, request sample rates, etc.”
Which means “I’ll send the data, digitally, along with a checksum – if what get’s there is corrupted (for example due to a dodgy cable), then I’ll drop that packet and you’ll hear ‘noise'”

SO, what does that mean in practice? A well designed cable, that’s in spec, with say ferrite chokes and decent shielding should in principal be less “lossy” than a crappy cable that drops/corrupts packets. Each of these packets gets transferred once every 125us so I ASSUME (scary word) that one corrupt packet in a series of good ones would corrupt the same amount of audio (roughly 1/10,000th of a second).

Assuming all the above to be true (happy for a USB protocol engineer to jump in here!), were you to get enough dropped packets in a given period of time, could you hear it? The answer would have to be yes. In most real-world situations are you likely to be capable of hearing it? Assuming you have decent (but let’s be clear, there is no such thing as PERFECT) cable, it’s unlikely you’ll notice a difference between a $25 USB cable and a $250 one. In fact I would suggest it would be hard to notice the difference between the one that came with your printer and a $250 one.

Save your money and buy more vinyl!

That’s about audiophiles that (claim to) hear the difference between two different brand resistors in their 20.000 euro a piece mono-block amps.

Us “normal” folks won’t really connect that way.

As I said earlier, if your entire chain is under your control and all your components are excellent quality, then I do believe cable can make a difference. Much more so in analogue than in digital though.

An electric signal is no more than electrons running through a conducting material (let’s say copper). Like water, the thicker the pipe the easier the water flows. If you use a small pipe and increase the amount of water that needs to pass through the pipe, you might start incurring some turbulence in the pipe and you will increase the amount of resistance of the pipe, so the smooth flow might get (partially or intermittently) broken. And the pipe will have a maximum throughput, more than that you can not get through the pipe in any fixed period of time.

Same goes for digital cables. As Paul explained, there is an increasing amount of data (electronic packets = electronic signals) that has to pass through the cable. If the copper is really thin (the core of a cable) then you will get the “turbulence” and added resistance causing dropouts and such. Due to the nature of digital communication, there is a “fail-safe” system in place. As mentioned by Paul, these are checksum packets. At the end of the line, the receiving end checks if all the expected “bits” arrived and if not, it can – to a degree – repair the packet. To an extent as I said. If the damage to the main packet is too extensive, it can’t be repaired, or if the amount of repair work that needs to be done exceeds the capacity of the receiving device to do the actual repairs. At this point you will experience audible problems.

While audio requirements may have gone up, it is mostly in the video world where this is an issue. Going from full HD to Ultra HD increases an already hefty data stream by a factor of 4! So suddenly you need to get 4 times as much water through your pipe. You can see how a pipe that could handle 2 times full hd would still only manage half of UHD!

I tend to agree with Paul that for short distance, distortion-free environment, audio purpose regular USB cables are fine. The amount of data isn’t all that big (compared to video), the receiving end usually more than capable of repairing whatever packet might get lost.

Physical damage to the core (a fracture!) is more likely to cause problems than the actual thickness of the core.
That said, a thicker core is sturdier, will fracture less easily. Thicker cables usually have thicker braiding which protects the core even more. The cable is less prone to damage during heavy use or when getting stuck under the lid of a DJ coffin for example. Better connectors are usually used. All in all better physical characteristics.

This is why we advice you to get thicker, stronger cables (usb, audio, whatever), to prevent from being at a gig and finding your thin as a hair usb cable from your phone charger has broken somehow since the previous gig. But don’t go for the marketing mumbo-jumbo. The fact that the core is thicker will help prevent some lost packets, but it will not sound beter imho.

Summarizing: the physical damage resistance from a cable is a more important aspect (for DJ’s) than it’s electrical qualities. That said, the electrical qualities will usually be better in stronger cable as part of that strength comes from using thicker materials (including core and shielding). Look for pro-grade cables (like professionals in the field use) not for audiophile-grade cables. It will get you good, solid cables without breaking the bank. No need for gold connectors, but for example on an XLR cable a Neutrik connector is physically better (long term) than many other brands. And therefor (and this is the main reason pro’s choice certain gear) more dependable!

To demonstrate this to yourself, see if you can get close to setups at festivals and events or at least to the sound engineers booth (those guys usually respond well to kind requests in my opinion) and have a look at the cables. No braided, multi-colored, gold-plated cables in sight. But no flimsy cables either.

Great question and I read the same review – frankly i LOVE the look of the Oyaide cables (except the hideous green ones) and any review the justifies me buying them is alright with me, BUT – I like the look, I couldn’t tell you if they sounded different to save my life.

Here’s the test you need to ask yourself – have you ever listened to music and suffered from “Spatially, individual images that initially seem small or smearing, vagueness, and bloat? Instability of the reproduced sound field during complex passages and dynamic peaks; instruments splashing forward, change size or location, or suffer from timbral shifts? Everything NOT staying put with solidity and tonal consistency to the point where you couldn’t play music at volume with confidence?

Yeah me neither – in fact some of these things I am not even sure are real things – reminds me more of the kind of rubbish you hear people talking about when drinking wine and pretending to know more about it than they do.

So my guess is, buy the cable – love the look OR save you money and buy more vinyl 😉

P.S. for the record I use DJ Tech Tools cables as a general rule but have also used whatever junk has been in the booth and if there was a difference I couldn’t hear it!

It’s one of the reasons we love this forum ourselves. You can make mistakes (and apologize for them) and not get flamed and/or end in a “bidding war”. And no apologies were really necessary, however they are very welcome.