1 Subwoofer to 2 tops pls help
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DJ NShyap.
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December 6, 2016 at 8:55 pm #2478321
DJ Vintage
ModeratorWhile 18″, the 300W amp suggests it’s pretty much underpowered.
1) Usually 1x 18″ goes well with 2x 12″ or 2x 15″ if you take care of proper balance between sub and tops. For 2x 18″ I would stick with 15″ tops usually. As for total power. Rule of thumb is 5 Watt (RMS) per person indoors, 10W for outdoors or if you really want to blow the roof of indoor. The 60-250 spread is pretty big. You are looking at 300 to 1250 Watt RMS. With your current single sub at 300 let’s say you’d need 500W a piece tops, but that would probably have the sub underperforming (generally you want the subs higher in Wattage than the tops).
2) The Peavey sub DOES have a crossover, the through connector can switch between thru (full range) and hpf (high pass filter = cross-over). Since it only has ONE crossover, you could run two tops from it, but you would have to feed mono signal and daisy-chain the tops. Stereo won’t work unless you run one end as a sub/top combo and the other side full range. Possible but not advisable.
3) Hooking up tops or not doesn’t matter for the sub as the tops are not powered from the sub and it being Peavey I would expect them to easily run at power for 3+ hours.
It really depends on what you want to do. There are very nice, portable systems (even high end from RCF for example) that consist of a 10 or 12″ sub with a (line)array top. Very compact, high quality, high power. Suitable for up to 100-120 people easy. Anything over that, just rent a professional PA suited for that size crowd would be my suggestion.
December 6, 2016 at 9:16 pm #2478351DJ NShyap
ParticipantThank you very much DJ Vintage.
I have just booked the subwoofers online looking at the reviews on Youtube and the Online Sales team is still waiting for the stock as there are no stocks. So I still have time to cancel/re-order a different item.
I dint know that the respective Subwoofer is under-powered and is of only 300 watt. Could you please suggest anything better around that range please!
Will I get a decent speaker set (2 tops and 1 subwoofer) within $1,625.00 for a crowd of 150 to 200 indoor. (1 US Dollar = Indian Rupees 67.74)
If not I was also planning(might sound crazy) to get a decent (JBL/other branded whatever you suggest) Subwoofer and hire 12inch Tops for rent $52.00 for 3 hrs for the moment. Later I would buy 2 tops of 15 inch once the emi is over for the subwoofer. Will 1 subwoofer be enough for indoor event?
I will be very grateful to your kind advise.
Please help.
December 6, 2016 at 9:39 pm #2478401DJ NShyap
ParticipantI wanted only Active Speakers. Could you please let me know if I buy 2 Peavey PV118D Powered 18″ Subwoofer Enclosure will it increase the wattage:
Peavey PV118D Powered 18″ Subwoofer Enclosure: Rs. 42,000/- each which is $620.00
I have seen 1 JBL 18″ subwoofer is costing me the price of about 2 Peavey 18″ Subwoofers.
JBL SRX718S Compact Subwoofer: Rs.62,637.00 which is $924.63
JBL STX818S 18″ BASS REFLEX Subwoofer: Rs. 78,229.00 which is $1,154.00
JBL STX800 Series STX818S Single 18″ Bass Reflex Subwoofer: Rs. 82.000/- which is $1,210.47Please advise.
Regards
December 6, 2016 at 9:48 pm #2478411DJ Vintage
ModeratorSubwoofer use is really depending on kind of gig and your personal taste. I know people who want massive low end and would prefer using 4 subs with 2 tops LOL. But for some low end support a 1 sub – 2 top setup will work. For some more fundamental low perhaps a 2 sub – 2 top setup.
From any reputable brand you can just get the sub and two tops from the same series. But with a total budget of 1625 USD you might want to start with just two tops and add a sub at a later date (I played many gigs without a sub for years and even now I’ll leave the sub at home and just use my two 12″ tops for parties).
December 6, 2016 at 10:08 pm #2478451DJ NShyap
ParticipantKindly help me understand:
1. Will adding two subwoofers of 300 watts make it 600 watts output in total making it powerful subwoofer for double 15″ tops?
2. Which from the following would you suggest me to go ahead with, considering I want low end support in gigs, as you rightly said in the previous reply, 300 watt of Peavey PV118D is too low and is a underpowered speaker?
a. 2nos. Peavey PV118D Powered 18″ Subwoofer Enclosure: Rs. 84,000/- which is $1,241.87,
b. 1no. JBL SRX718S Compact Subwoofer: Rs.62,637.00 which is $924.63,
c. 1no. JBL STX818S 18″ BASS REFLEX Subwoofer: Rs. 78,229.00 which is $1,154.00,
d. 1no. JBL STX800 Series STX818S Single 18″ Bass Reflex Subwoofer: Rs. 82.000/- which is $1,210.47 ??Regards,
(Once I finalize on the Subwoofer, I would then go ahead in selecting the 2 Tops.)
December 6, 2016 at 10:10 pm #2478461DJ NShyap
ParticipantThank you very much DJ Vintage. I appreciate your advise.
December 6, 2016 at 10:28 pm #2478481DJ Vintage
ModeratorAn 18″ speaker (which is a pretty big surface) powered by only a 300W amp would worry me. I have an 18″ sub that is powered by an 800W digital amp. The low amp in the Peavey will have serious trouble controlling that big speaker at high volumes.
Yes you can get two Peavey subs and add two 15″ active tops. That will technically work. The subs will add up to 600W so will need to add at least 300W a piece 15″ speakers to get to the 200 people mark.
The JBLs you mention are all passive, so not an option.
You could look at something like the Mackie SRM550 (12″ – 800W tops) with 1 SRM1850 sub (800W 18″). Total in Euro (not sure what the prices are where you can get them in USD) about 2000. 2.400 Watt total and if they sound anything like my HD-series they will pretty much loud enough for your purpose. Keep in mind that you will want to get speaker covers (keep them nice while transporting), cables and stands (you can screw a pipe in the sub and place the top on it), so that will add to the budget.
The single 18″ sub can handle stereo input and send out stereo hpf signal, one to each top.
I think this is at the bottom end of a good sounding, loud enough, quality PA in this setup. You could start looking at DAP, Behringer, American Audio and such, but I would not commit that kind of money to those brands for a serious PA.
December 6, 2016 at 10:42 pm #2478491DJ NShyap
ParticipantThank you very much DJ Vintage. I am sure the information you just provided would help many confused DJs and passionate music players.
I have the below last questions:
1. Why do Speakers (exp subwoofers) smells like some plastic is burning inside after playing sometime…(it happened with VRX JBL subwoofer…We used 2 VRX 18″subwoofer and 4 Arrays Tops) for an outdoor event. It seems even smoke was seen by one person.
2. What do Seller mean in descriptions such as: “Continuous 350 Watts and Peak 1400 Watts”?
3. How to save speakers from blowing it off during playing or how to protect speakers from operational damage (Is it that we should play with minimum gain till the bar reaches the orange bar and not in red bar or we should give gap and avoid too much of bass or high pitch sound)
Thank you very much for your help.
December 7, 2016 at 7:15 pm #2478701DJ NShyap
ParticipantAs per what I have understood, I am going ahead with Mackie Thump 18S as it fits my budget.
However will there be any issues if I try to insert any 15″ tops to it or there has to be some specification such as 500watts etc.
Regards,
December 7, 2016 at 8:32 pm #2478741DJ Vintage
ModeratorIf you pick the Thump sub I’d go with the Thump tops (usually best to match sub with tops from same brand and range as they are usually engineered to work well together). You could start with one 18S and two 15’s and add an 18S later if you feel you still need more umph. This would give you a start of 1600W RMS or something I believe. Plenty for your purpose.
To answer your questions:
1) Depending on build quality it could be several things. From plain over-steering them (better speakers have both thermal and signal limiting built-in, but lower end stuff won’t have that) to playing them hard without proper cross-overs. In the latter case, the sub will try to spend amp power to have the BIG speaker move really fast (higher frequencies). As the big speaker can’t move that quicly (too much mass), the coil and magnet at the back can get pretty hot and even burn-out. Where you using the passive or active VRX?2) RMS is a regulated term and poses certain demands on the testing in order to use it. All other terms “PMPO”, Peak Power, Music Power, Program Power, Total Power and whatever else they come up with are not regulated and everybody just uses those to their own discretion. So really RMS is the only kind of power you can (more or less) objectively compare. On it’s own it’s not all that relevant without also knowing the sensitivity of the speaker, generally reported as SPL. Also interesting is the maximum output before distortion, known as max. SPL.
In short:
* RMS tells you what “continuous” power level the amp can deliver (in the case of an active speaker)
* SPL (Sound Pressure Level) tells you how many dBs of sound you get when 1 Watt RMS of white noise is played and measured at 1 meter distance from the speaker. This is a measure of how sensitive a speaker transfers amp power into audio power. The higher the number the more sensitive it is. So lower RMS but high SPL can lead to the same perceived loudness as high RMS and low SPL. Clearly both high will give you more loudness, both low less loudness.
* Max. SPL is the maximum sound pressure level the speaker can deliver (again at 1 m) before (a certain amount of) distortion occurs. Beware that dB scales are logarithmic. If you double the amp power in a given situation you will only gain 3dB spl. So two comparable speakers, one with a max SPL of 127dB, the other with 130dB. Having the higher one is like having the lower one with TWICE the amp power. So don’t think oh only a few dB max SPL difference as it really adds up.3) As I said many speakers will have built-in limiting for temperature and signal level. If you run them beyond their safe upper levels the protection kicks in, you’ll hear a click and no more music. Usually after a slight delay (and dropping the signal level) they will click again an come back on.
That said, there are two “rules” in PA that I would try to stick by.
a) 0dB rulez!
b) Red is Bad! (Clipping kills speakers)
Always try to tune your entire audio chain to be 0dB average with +3 to + 5dB at the loud bits (peaks). Generally speaking the first one or two orange lights blinking, the last green one more or less permanently on. And NEVER go into the red. Start with your deck gains, then your master gain on controller/mixer and then on your speakers also set 0dB (depending on what max level is at full you will keep your speakers set at 85-100% when no 0dB marking is present). When you do that, you should never hurt your speakers or cause them to sound distorted (or any other part of the audio chain for that matter).Just my 3 cents worth.
December 9, 2016 at 3:22 pm #2479451DJ NShyap
ParticipantThank you DJ Vintage.. It is alwasy a pleasure to have a conversation with you. You will attain Moksha for you help everyone with your valuable suggestions. I am so enlightened.
Thank you very much.
I ordered 2 nos. Mackie Thump 15″ and 1no. Mackie Thump 18S from a National Authorised Mackie dealer 🙂
Later if required I will get 1 more same subwoofer.
Now do u feel it will be sufficient for a crowd upto 200 indoor for 3 hours continuous play (before the danger level in green or max orange)?
Thank you ever so much.
I have received the answer by your kindness and the Topic may be closed as per your decision 🙂 🙂
Regards,
DJ NShyapDecember 9, 2016 at 7:43 pm #2479841DJ Vintage
ModeratorYep, that should give you enough bang for such a party indoors. Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.
December 10, 2016 at 9:26 pm #2479961Cusp Cusp
ParticipantShould you want to eek more out of your system, you can get a relatively inexpensive (around $200…less, second-hand) Loudspeaker Management System (in addition to your chosen speakers) to gain more control of where your cross-over points are (keeping the sub-bass out of your mains, and vice-versa) helps the speakers give optimal performance (when adjusted correctly).
April 27, 2017 at 1:27 am #2552201DJ NShyap
ParticipantThe Sound System is really cool and is really good for about 40*40 sq feet with abolut 150-200 people.
However, I have faced peculiar issues:
a. In one event I only used the two 15″ Tops and dint check the limiter on the speakers. After about 3hrs, one of the speakers Blown off. I sent it for Warranted repair. It seems the Spider and Voice Coil tore off . I got it repaired for free. However they said to give volume within Limiter warning, i.e. the Limiter Red Light should not glow on the speakers.
b. Subwoofer’s limiter suddenly turned constantly on and the SUbwoofer turned off however the Tops were still playing with limited Bass which were connected through the Subwoofer. After turning it off for about 10 minutes, everything started playing again smoothly.
c. This one is the MOST Peculiar problem I faced. After playing for 3 hours, the Speakers reacted weird. The Music would play on Speaker 1 and not on Speaker 2 and again after sometime on Speaker 2 and not on Speaker 1.It was kind of a Wave Music. It was very quick situation. It happened with other Brand speakers as well. I checked with my XLR Cables, Allen and Heath ZED6FX Mixer, dint understand a thing why it happened. However the music became alright after turning the sets off for sometime. However it was ridiculous experience. I was told sound sets automatically adjusts to turn off for few seconds to avoid going to shocking stage.
Now I play by keeping gain on my Macbook (VDJ 7)so that bar doesnt touch Orange and keep checking the speakers panel if Limiter is blinking red.
I play music around 83 Decibels for front audience and it gives me around 73 decibels in my DJ table.
Can anyone please throw some light how to avoid such situations in future, now that I carry entire sets with me and in some situations there would be no technician around even!!
Thank you very much 🙂
April 27, 2017 at 1:40 am #2552221DJ NShyap
ParticipantJust to add:
I have the following:
2 Tops of Mackie 15″ Speakers
1 Subwoofer of Mackie 18″ Speaker
Allen& Heath ZED6FX
Mackbook
Numark Mixtrack Quad
VDJ 7 Professional
Stereo XLR Cables from Mixer Outputs to Subwoofer inputs
Stereo XLR Cables 10 meters from Subwoofer each to the left and right Tops or 20meters to one top from SW and 3meters to the other if Pole used on Subwoofer itself.Thank you
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