advice on subwoofer positioning

This topic has 23 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 13 years, 1 month ago by DjDemonick.

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January 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm #34547

NewportDJ Drew
Participant

The sound starts at the magnet. and so you want all your frequency waves~ coming out of all your speakers at the same time. line em up baby!
<~
…..<~
Is bad
<~
<~
is good.
Knowing about phase alignment is a good thing.
*This is not a complete answer by any means, just another piece of the puzzle.

January 7, 2013 at 4:09 pm #34599

Hee Won Jung
Participant

Yup what Drew said…make sure all your main speakers are right in a row.

As well i would reccomend getting another Subwoofer…even if u have to rent for a 175 person venue.

I always go with for every sub have 1 loudspeaker

so 2 speakers 2 subs…8 speakers 8 subs

January 7, 2013 at 11:26 pm #34634

Richard Driver
Participant

thanks guys, some input that i didnt see on other forums out there was given here. so the overall consensus ive read is that if you have a corner near your set up, turn the sub facing the corner and it will do wonders, if no corner, then next to a wall is 2nd best and almost the worst place to set a sub up is underneath or next to your set up. im going to try this theory out and i will report back after this gig i have in 2 weeks.

January 8, 2013 at 7:09 am #34641

Terry_42
Keymaster

Actually too close to a wall is not good in my experience.
Yes line up the main speakers is always good, but I always leave “breathing room” to walls if I can.
If you do it like they suggested, then you will get “acoustic doppler effects” from the wall. Yes it will make the bass more intense, but it will also make it more distorted and “unreal”. To keep the thing clean: Line it up correctly with your main speakers and have it face the same way.

January 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm #34662

Coltrane09
Participant

Hee Won Jung, post: 34755, member: 948 wrote: Yup what Drew said…make sure all your main speakers are right in a row.

As well i would reccomend getting another Subwoofer…even if u have to rent for a 175 person venue.

I always go with for every sub have 1 loudspeaker

so 2 speakers 2 subs…8 speakers 8 subs

Hee,

I see so many set ups with 2 tops and 1 subs in rooms with a capacity of about 150-200 and the sound is pretty good. Is it overkill to add another sub in those instances or would you err of caution and still use a second sub (2 tops + 2 subs)? Better to have more than not have enough?

January 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm #34673

Hee Won Jung
Participant

Well I always like to have more than i need because i can always keep my volumes down if need be…The more stress you put onto your equipment the bigger chance that problems can happen in the long run.

As well this is also very dependant on the type of equipment you are using…You can blow your subs if you are using an amp and Speaker system as there is no limiter in the sub. With newer active systems there usually is a built in limiter and the sub will auto shut off if there is a chance you are going to damage your sub.

But I also have to add in that I am a huge believer of Equal sound…proper levels within your sound system as well.

I often see too many times where people just crank their entire system and yeah its loud but it sounds like shit…the highs overpower your lows and you get what i refer to the tin can effect(think of laptop speakers at their max).

I have a buddy that works with PK and his golden rules are:

Create a wall of sound all speakers in a row together
Equal amount of Subs to Speakers…and if need be stack your Speakers
There is never a thing as too much when it comes to speakers…but your show will suck if you dont have enough.
You can make people feel the bass without hearing a damn thing, and ive blown windows to prove it (his words)

January 8, 2013 at 6:10 pm #34685

Coltrane09
Participant

One thing I hate is that tin can effect where the highs are distorted. It’s as if the DJ’s don’t have a clue that their system is hurting everyone’s doggone ears.

January 8, 2013 at 8:37 pm #34698

Richard Driver
Participant

thanks for the input guys. good stuff here. in the past ive always had my tops and sub alined in a row with sub facing out towards the crowd. but then i remembered from my car audio days that you almost never wanted to face the subs inwards towards the driver and always towards the trunk. and i found that the closer it was towards the trunk, i would get a big difference in sub out put. my buddy at the car audio shop proved this to me by testing this out in my car with an sound pressure meter (spl) meter. 135db facing the front 138db facing the trunk furthest away, and 141.5db when the subs were right next to the back of the trunk. I had a pair of JL audio w3 on a mean Memphis amp. but long gone are the days of big car bass of my youth but not the knowledge of trails and errors and wasted money trying to reach sound nirvana. and im telling you that if you google sub placement many upon many of people will tell you to put your sub in a corner with like 6-8 inches of space is ideal. 2nd facing the wall and 3rd against a wall. they even suggest for out door use (no walls) to set up your subs to be able to face downwards at an 30 degree angle (modification required). but all and all, im taking input from all sources and i really respect the opinions of you terry and Hee Won Jung. and i do by the way plan on a second sub. Again, I guess there is noting left but to do it. I promise Ill report back after that gig. I wish i could do it at home but i like on the 2nd floor of a multi-unit apartment building with thin walls. My rockit 5s are to much and i get complaints while practicing. Ill show up an hour early for this sound check guys. again thanks so much!!!!

January 8, 2013 at 10:01 pm #34703

Hee Won Jung
Participant

the only flaw in your logic that i can find is that most articles on google regarding sub placement is based on home theater or something of that nature…which is totally different than in a night club…I forgot where i read it but it had said that you want to keep all your sound restricted towards the dance floor. As patrons want to be able to still communicate with each other you want to maximize the sound directly to the dance floor and keep it there oppose to going in every direction.

Most Home Theater setups this is the exact opposite of what you are looking for. Subs are meant more to feel the bass than hear the bass so you want that bass to be non directional that is why you would place it in a corner or near a wall as it would reflect the sub and spread it across the whole listening space.

That is why you will see a lot of the higher end home theater subs with a downfiring speak oppose to front firing…but you will NEVER see a downfire sub in a music setting.

This goes the same for your car sub…as the distance from the wall of ur trunk will reflect the sub bass oppose to facing the seats where the seats will absorb a lot of the bass before you can hear it.

Let me dig around and find this page that i have bookmarked on my home computer…it explains how sound frequencies work and how they interact with each other its really interesting to read and explains things like Noise cancelling, sound dissapation, amplification, resonance, and interaction with objects and matter.

January 9, 2013 at 3:16 am #34709

Richard Driver
Participant

@ Hee Won Jung. check the serato forums. im not trying to support other forums here but here is a link.
http://serato.com/forum/discussion/188998
i googled “subwoofer placement mobile djs” allot of other guys say the same thing
terms such as corner loading and coupling are discussed.
and another thread
http://serato.com/forum/discussion/16513

January 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm #34765

Hee Won Jung
Participant

I agree to an extend. The Corner Positioning is something that i guess is a here nor there aspect but there is no way in hell i would ever turn my sub to face a wall. Here is my reasoning…you may get more dB out of your sub for an overall louder sub…but the wall only reflects certian frequencies…and it will absorb others…now the problem with this is that I like to be able to feel that punch in my chest when im on the dancefloor, and you cannot achive that same punch feeling when 1/2 the frequencies are being absorbed with the wall.

As well another issue you face is that when your sub is at a different distance from your crowd than your speakers you get out of phase. The videos i posted below will give u a general idea of what i am talking about

If you have time i want you to do a little test…Grab your phone turn a song onto it and put it into a Metal or plastic cup. You will notice that the sound will be greatly amplified BUT you will get almost like an echo effect happening. The results are that you get a louder sound at a reduced quality as the sound bounces between the walls of the cup before it is audible to your ears.

[media=youtube]rSdvQ4vecco[/media]

[media=youtube]1zHpcvUIqdg[/media]

sub woofers always need to be in one group. Low frequency sound (bass) spread 360 degree around the speakers and reflection from walls and floor kill direct radiating sound. If you separate sub woofers you add additionally problems because sound from stacks kill each other because is out of phase, you will get comb filtering.

January 9, 2013 at 9:11 pm #34772

NewportDJ Drew
Participant

Another piece of the puzzle, in the video Hee posted, they mention bass frequency as being long, so some trivia…..
a single 100Hz sine wave is around 17 feet high and (17 feet) long!

January 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm #34773

Hee Won Jung
Participant

LOL!! Newport you asked for it…this is a great read…3/4s of this was so over my head that my head hurt

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/optimizing_the_low_end_run_gun_subwoofer_arraying_techniques/P3/

and here is the article i use when it comes to placement

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/the_best_place_to_put_subwoofers_is/

January 10, 2013 at 12:55 am #34782

Richard Driver
Participant

Hee Won Jung, post: 34921, member: 948 wrote: I agree to an extend. The Corner Positioning is something that i guess is a here nor there aspect but there is no way in hell i would ever turn my sub to face a wall. Here is my reasoning…you may get more dB out of your sub for an overall louder sub…but the wall only reflects certian frequencies…and it will absorb others…now the problem with this is that I like to be able to feel that punch in my chest when im on the dancefloor, and you cannot achive that same punch feeling when 1/2 the frequencies are being absorbed with the wall.

As well another issue you face is that when your sub is at a different distance from your crowd than your speakers you get out of phase. The videos i posted below will give u a general idea of what i am talking about

If you have time i want you to do a little test…Grab your phone turn a song onto it and put it into a Metal or plastic cup. You will notice that the sound will be greatly amplified BUT you will get almost like an echo effect happening. The results are that you get a louder sound at a reduced quality as the sound bounces between the walls of the cup before it is audible to your ears.

[media=youtube]rSdvQ4vecco[/media]

[media=youtube]1zHpcvUIqdg[/media]

sub woofers always need to be in one group. Low frequency sound (bass) spread 360 degree around the speakers and reflection from walls and floor kill direct radiating sound. If you separate sub woofers you add additionally problems because sound from stacks kill each other because is out of phase, you will get comb filtering.

yea im not sure that the wall will absorb 50% of the frequencies. but as I mentioned before, allot of other people attest to this method and for me, well the jury isnt out yet but I will indeed give it a try and report back

January 11, 2013 at 3:15 pm #34874

Richard Driver
Participant

very good info from a reputable source
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=398
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