Beginner DVS Scratch Turntable

I think it can be done cheaper…

Firstly, just start with one turntable! you have your controller for playback duties, and just practice getting your scratches down over that… also less of a risk if you discover you suck or lose interest. You can add another anytime, and if you’re buying cheap tables, you might even want to step up a level for the next one!

Secondly, as to the maintenance, DVS scratching is a LOT less demanding on your gear… when you have one “aaah” sound on your whole (analogue) scratch record, and spend 100’s of hours back and forth on that single spot, it will wear out after a while, but thats a loooong groove on a timecode! (And even a worn out analogue record is perfectly servicable for learning with – it may sound dull, but at this stage doesn’t really matter) With DVS it also matters less if it wears to the point wear it skips, so another point for longevity there. As mentioned, analogue starts to sound a bit worn, but with timecode “dull” signals still track fine and it won’t affect the quality of your output sound. (Also buy black timecode – coloured wears quicker). Similarly with the needles – as you don’t need to avoid skipping, you can set your tables to run much lighter – no need to weigh it down in the groove with coins or whatever, so as long as you don’t set things too light and have the tonearm bouncing all over the place, your needles will have a much longer life than with traditional scratching. As its a learning experience you should also be prepared to compromise a bit – play that stuff until its absolutely wrecked, beyond the point where you maybe should replace it!

(One other tip – get two needles and 2 timecodes, even though you only have one turntable. Keep one pair for scratching and one pair for regular play, and be strict about keeping them separate – when the scratch pair (or more likely just the needle) is trashed, the “play” pair moves to scratch duty, and get new stuff as the “good”. Also pick up a few “real” scratch records with the money you saved on the second TT for insight)

Vintage was right! Don’t take his word for it! ;-p

I don’t really have any horse in this race, so there is no motivation for me to make up stories on the internet, just sharing my experience. There was no vinyl where I grew up and started DJing, but about 5 years in, I moved to a country that was pretty much vinyl only and went a bit scratch crazy. Nowdays I use a few scratch techniques for effects when playing out (kinda gone back to CDJs in clubs anyway), but mostly just scratch in private – its kind of like participating in the music rather than passive listening. So publicly I’m not a turntablist, but I’ve worn enough paint off crossfader faceplates to speak from experience.

Never implied there was no cost, I only said it could be done a lot cheaper than the $100 per month originally mentioned (then $50, now $30!?) and thought it a bit sad to see someone get put off their dreams by an extreme example, when in my experience, I doubt I’ve even gone to $10 or $15 per month overall, and I’m talking about when I was using TTs a lot, not including times when they were dormant. Anyway, here’s my story, tell me how bogus it is… I’ll calculate as we go along – maybe I’m off…?

TTS – I bought my 1200 MK3Ds new in 2001. To date ZERO maintenance costs. (I did swap out a tonearm due to some non-DJ related damage, which I wouldn’t regard as average, but throw in $80 for that if you want~=$5 per year). For the first 3 years of their lives, they saw a few hours of daily home “playing” and mixing use and I’d guess around 15-20 hours of scratching per month. After that they were installed in a smokey club for three winters and have been rented out and borrowed 10’s of times, as well as being dropped more than once. Then for a few years they were mostly boxed up with probably less than 50 hours per year, and then hauled out again for about another 9 months of heavy scratch duty again when I got Traktored up in 2011/12… I’ve hardly been kind to my turntables – no idea what parts need tuning with “special treatments”.

Slipmats – In that time I’ve only had 4 pairs of slipmats. The original technics ones are a little ratty, but they still work – the point being that the others were bought more out of curiosity than that it was a case of it ever being impossible to scratch due to wear… and one set went missing so really only 3 I don’t really have any horse in this race, so there is no motivation for me to make up stories on the internet, just sharing my experience. There was no vinyl where I grew up and started DJing, but about 5 years in, I moved to a country that was pretty much vinyl only and went a bit scratch crazy. Nowdays I use a few scratch techniques for effects when playing out (kinda gone back to CDJs in clubs anyway), but mostly just scratch in private – its kind of like participating in the music rather than passive listening. Publicly I’m not a turntablist, but I’ve worn enough paint off crossfader faceplates to speak from experience.

Stylii – My usual supplier lists N44-7s at $35, but currently has no stock, so dunno if its a fair price to count on. I was actually surprised to see that price – I usually expect closer to $50. Without price hunting, amazon.uk has them for ~$50 so we’ll go with that as a maximum, bearing in mind that you might need the M44-7 kit at $85 the first time. How often they need replacing is a much-debated question – some people use the same ones for years, but obviously not for heavy scratching. Personally, when scratching analogue I use my needles until they break – not the best thing for the records though, but as they’re pretty trashed already, feel like they’re going to wreck a new needle. The point is that you can get pretty ghetto for your own entertainment and practice with some 50cent flea market vinyl and a re-straightened old needle.
I’m a bit better behaved on timecode – conscious to try and spread the wear too. I’ve needed to replace a lot more needles due to carelessness than anything else – have developed the habit now of always using the little lever to lift the tonearm (not for re-cueing obviously) and locking it on the stand whenever changing records. Anyway, the manufacturer rates them at 500-1000hours of play time. Not too sure what to make of that figure – as the turntablist model, one would hope that that meant scratch time, but I’m skeptical… for argument sake we’ll say scratching is 5-10x heavier wear, so we’ll call it 100hours. Thats 3 months of an hour per day cutting…. So $85+$50+$50+$50=$235 for the first year. (and incidentally if you are that dedicated to keep up an hour a day over a year, the hobby might even be worth the fabled $100 per month)

Timecode – I’ll admit I’ve spent far longer scratching vinyl than timecode, but my original Traktor vinyls from 2011 are still mostly holding up with I’d guess 300 hours on them. There are some dodgy patches, but just pick the needle up and drop it somewhere else and you’re good to go. These days the hassle of setting up means I almost never use timecode when playing out, and I’d probably get a new set if I decided to, but as the OP is just setting out, don’t see him needing pristine code either. Relative mode is your friend. Lets throw in an extra set for $30 though.

So where are we? Above comes to $295 per year = $25 per month, so not too far off with your $30, so basically you end up agreeing with my “total bogus method”.

I think my estimates are really conservative, so while you think that’s a lower bound, I’d call it a maximum – if you’re spending more than that your turntable is set up wrong (also, for the OP, as well as initial leveling and height adjustment, before every session wash your hands, re-balance the tone arm and clean your vinyl before and after). Technically there’s an extra $85 in there as the OP had already budgeted for the first M44-7 too, so that puts maintenance costs at under $20… although I imagine you could break a few extra needles and gouge some records when first starting out, so we’ll leave it there… So I stand by my assertion that $25 is cheaper than $100 or $50. And, yeah, thats a single table but as I originally said think a single deck is a good way to get your feet wet – adding the second deck reduces wear on the first setup anyway.

That said, probably worth mentioning that I’ve spent a lot of time and money trying to get away from turntables – they do bring their own set of problems, costs are probably the least of them! However, if you are wanting to be a turntablist, there is simply no other way to go. My current home setup is Denon 3900’s(big spinning platters) which are 90% of the way there and one technics 1200 for the real deal. These days I can’t be bothered to set up controllers or carry my own decks anymore unless I’m playing for over 2 hours, so I’ll usually play on whatever the club provides…. and that I feel is the advantage of having learned on dodgy equipment – I can deal with any gear, because its all a step up from where I started.

Guesswork?

This is getting to be a bit silly back and forth, but you guys really don’t seem to be getting my point…

In responding to a guy who says “all I wanted was to learn turntablism… I just want to enter the scene so bad”, I made a few suggestions to try to minimize the ongoing costs, the first of which was, yes, to start with only ONE turntable and to use his existing controller for beats – never once came even close to pretending that there are no costs involved.

In fact the whole cost assessment was an experiment for me too – never got into figures in the first post, but when I got accused of a “total bogus” post, thought we should see how it holds up. If young Kevin would pop back in and tell us that juggling rather than scratching is his main focus or that he intends daily two hour practice, then sure, my figures are off.

You mention changing out styli in clubs once a month… no argument there for a public performance where people are paying entrance fees, and the music skipping or worse stopping completely can really wreck things. Can you not concede that when playing in private and at a beginner level, you could extend that limit, especially in a style where high fidelity reproduction is almost a non-issue?

Yes, I actually checked before posting. M44-7s are $85, but N44-7s are $50 from a very mainstream supplier in the posters area. I’m sure he could find them for cheaper, but used that figure instead of the $35 I see them for locally as didn’t seem like a typical price. (and sorry, but its frankly rather telling that you didn’t pick up on the M/N difference)

Disrespect? But hip hop is ABOUT disrespect! Painting on walls, overloading mics for kickdrum sounds, “stealing” bits of other peoples songs and doing things that records and turntables weren’t designed for.
(That was intended as a joke btw… but on second thoughts maybe I’m serious lol)

Anyway, my point about using stuff to its absolute limits, was qualified with words like “compromise”, “ghetto” and in reference to carboot sale records with rescued needles… “beyond the point were you should replace it” etc. I was clear also to point out in the first post that scratch needles should be strictly separated from playing ones.

Not going to repeat everything, the whole point was just that in many years of bedroom scratching, I’ve never come close to $100 per month in upkeep, or even $50 for that matter and thought that a sample of even one might be useful for the poster to know about.

Good (very!) that you pointed out to him that there are ongoing costs, just not sure that pro-level ones are applicable here.