Building a lighting service business
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ScottoRobotto.
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June 22, 2015 at 5:19 pm #2214821
DJ Vintage
ModeratorHey Scotto,
You know I’ll give you my honest and humble opinion.
First of all, I applaud your entrepreneurship. Good job.
Second, I am no big fan of free anything, but if that is a business model that works for you, your choice.
Third, if you charge people for services, I believe you have to deliver a certain standard of gear. Unlike the competition that will no doubt use high end lighting gear (to give you an idea, at that level a single LED PAR will run several hundred dollars per light!) and charge a lot more. Clearly that is not your target market.
Having said that, the lights your are sporting are, again imho, below the level a customer might expect. I have no problems with American DJ, but I do think that for paid services you’d have to step up to more effective models. For PARs I’d suggest the new (4th Gen) DOTZ units (both PARs and Bars) and for FX something like Revo 3 and 4. As for foggers, I am no fan of those (having used them for many years), but the audience response has been getting worse and worse in the last decade. Also fog is more of an effect which you can only use occassionally. The whole idea behind fog usually is to enhance the effect of the other lights/effects. For that purpose though a hazer (while not cheap) is a FAR superior product to use. It creates a very fine and invisible mist, it can run all night and it truly enhances the light show by making all beams visible. So a hazer should be on the top of your wanted list.Finally, and this is the big one, your business model.
Simply put, setting up and tearing down at least 2 hours total (been there, done that a million times, so rather modest assumption, if you include cabling, testing, etx.) So your 2 hour gig will cost you 4 hours including transportation, write-off on gear and such. But even just looking at the hours, you charge 25 bucks for two-hour show, costing you about 4 hours. That boils down to about 6,25 an hour. Not sure about the wages in the US, but I think there are far more lucrative things to do. If you go for the – more likely – 4 hour option, it’s 40 bucks for 6 hours, boiling down to 6,66 an hour. Again, this is excluding transportation (at the very least gas money), storage, write-off, upkeep & maintenance and putting money aside to upgrade your gear.
At that point I have to wonder about the feasability. While a side job, I do assume you are trying to make some money out of it. Getting paid for your efforts and expertise and for your gear.Let’s assume for a moment that you have a complete light setup worth 1.000 dollars (very modest, but easy for calculation purposes). Average rental fee is about 4% of new value (excl. VAT). This means in order to put your gear somewhere in a normal rental situation you would have to charge around 40 bucks excluding tax, just for the gear. Let’s say you put 10 bucks of gas in the car. That makes 50. Then you should make at least 20 bucks an hour average (including setting up and taking down). So, for a two hour gig that comes to 90 bucks, Four hour gig comes to 130 bucks (don’t see the point in discounting your hourly rate if you have to work more hours, trust me, a decent DJ wouldn’t either.)
Clearly that rate goes up quickly if you start getting some more serious gear. A hazer will set you back at least 600 bucks for example.
To answer your final question, would a service like yours be interesting to a DJ like me? Yes, because I HATE doing lights, it’s time consuming, it’s very hard to make a manual light show when you have to DJ as well, so you end up setting everything to auto programs or sound activated (boring!) and it takes some serious investment. However, I’d expect at least semi-pro gear (glow in the dark Jelly devices would most definitely not cut it with me, nor would 3W LED lights) and a good operator. Someone offering me the whole thing (gear, hours, transport) for 40 bucks for 4 hours, while I charge 600-1000 for that same period of time excluding light would tell me I am not dealing with someone at my level of professionality. And the last thing I would want to do is undermine my customers experience when they hire me by having sub-standard lighting in place.
I actually work together with a guy that owns an LED video wall (about 2 by 4 meters). He does a lot of prep work (like put pictures, text, vids for the event in there as well as some of my name drops, logo’s, music videos) and looks very professional (booth, high end laptop, personal appearance). He charges a healthy 1000 bucks for a night and when I sell it (making a bit of profit on his services too).
My advice would be to step up your professionalism and your rates. If you do, I think you can get some serious side business going. As I said, most DJs care about music and don’t want to be bothered by the time consuming business of setting up and taking down lights, investing the extra money and still ending up with a sub-par light show if all you can do is set it on auto run.
June 23, 2015 at 12:18 pm #2215401ScottoRobotto
ParticipantI hear what you’re saying and my business would definitely not be at the level you’re operating at. However, I can only think of handful of events a year in my area that could afford $1,000 for lighting and they already have long term relationships with the established businesses in the area. Even if I could find an opening I would only have a small market share in a saturated market segment.
I am targeting small-time, weekly acts because I see a market opportunity, most of them use no lighting of any kind. I’ve calculated my costs and time and my numbers come out to $9.20/hr which while a little low seems acceptable to me while I develop my business. My setup would be insufficient for lighting a large venue but the bars I’ve been doing gigs at have about 800sq/ft of seating area, they would definitely seem to fall into the category of a small venue.
I imagine most DJs starting out are doing this level of work with weekly gigs at dive bars for almost no money. I also rent out small guitar amps, microphones and stands, cables, a PA and even a 6-piece drum kit to people who need support and gear. It does not strike me as a particularly lucrative business but on the other hand I already own all this gear anyway so it requires no start-up capital and about as much operating expenses as buying a beer.
June 23, 2015 at 3:54 pm #2215581DJ Vintage
ModeratorFor clarity, I am not suggesting you start doing 1.000 dollar rentals! I do think that even at this level, 2.000 isn’t all that much in gear (especially with a 600-700 dollar hazer in the mix). And the rental fees on that would have to be about 80 dollars for a night.
Another thing is, it’s better to start with higher (realistic) rates and offer introductory discounts (say first year 50%, second year 25% and third year full rate or something based on the number of gigs). The thing is that it is extremely hard to raise your rates significantly in a relatively short period of time once people are used to your lowball rates. It is much easier to dial back a discount.
Also it’s good business to reward repeat customers, which is hard if you start with very low rates to begin with. You’d end up giving a good customer 10% discount after a certain number of bookings. This will be 10% off an already low number.
I hear your argument of already owning stuff. In my daytime job we just had a comparable discussion. We own our current gear (worth about 140.000 euro) and it’s all paid for. Like your lighting gear, we already own this gear. Some folks wanted us to offer lower rental fees to our customers, as what we make on the gear SEEMS like all margin/profit, after all we don’t have to pay anything for the gear (no lease or borrowed money). But instead we calculate with what this gear would cost if we had to start anew right now. So including financing, write off and all the other good stuff. So, while bought and paid for, this gear now represents a virtual cost price. And that forms the basis of our pricing model.
Most important thing is that you are doing something you love doing. Not trying to demotivate you, on the contrary. But I AM trying to look at this from a pure business point of view. If other, non-business, factors weigh in heavily with you, then clearly another choice is yours to make.
Keep it up though, doing something beats doing nothing but hang on the couch any day of the week!
June 24, 2015 at 8:51 am #2216131ScottoRobotto
ParticipantRight, calculating rates based on the estimated retail value of the equipment is the correct way to do it. What I meant by ownership and startup costs is that since I own the equipment and they are durable goods I could enter the market with almost no startup capital.
In a few months I plan to raise my base rate slightly to $30/2 hr and $50/4 hr and rebrand my current service as my basic package and add some new equipment to a new standard package. I will offer my existing customers a coupon for a free 2 hr. upgrade to the standard package as a thank you for their business.
I don’t plan to pick up a hazer because it’s not worth the investment for the size of the venues I work in and the lifespan of my business. What I have been working on is a diffuser for my fog machine which separates the fog using baffles and a few 120mm case fans wired to a 9v ac adapter. The baffles split and direct the fog and the fans add velocity and disperse the fog to help it cover a wider area. ADJ does something similar with their Faze Fury but they simply rebound the fog off a flat plate and disperse using a squirrel fan.
June 24, 2015 at 12:39 pm #2216321DJ Vintage
ModeratorI won’t try to convince you to get a hazer. But the concept is so much different and regardless of the dispersion method, haze has a far superior “hang time” and is practically invisible (also when it’s coming out of the machine).
What I would like to suggest to you, if feasible, is to go a shop that sells this stuff and get a good hazer demo and see for yourself. I think it’s the single best thing you can do to enhance the quality of the light show you are selling and it does wonders for the ambience, again totally imho.
Back to my first remark, good job no the entrepreneurship and keep going on the path that YOU feel comfortable with.
June 26, 2015 at 2:18 pm #2217091Dominic Souza-Larimore
ParticipantHey Scotto,
I may be able to help you develop your business and possibly even help you develop your DJ skills. That is if you’d be interested. I looked into your post history to see if I could get more information on your business, low and behold, you posted about being from Hawaii. I run my own personal mobile DJ business out here in Honolulu. It’s still pretty new, but it’s doing so much better than I could have imagined in just one years time. I also do side work with two of the top mobile DJ companies on the island. My main co-worker and helper, recently left Hawaii to move back home, so I’m looking for somebody to fill his shoes.
I’ve gotten into quite a bit of lighting over the last six months, and I guess you could say I’m almost in the same boat as you. I share a lot of the same goals that you have about starting a lighting business locally. There is definitely a market for it. Right now, my lighting rig consists of an ADJ light bridge one truss, 16x ADJ mega tri pars, 4x generic moving wash lights, 1x Radius 2.0, and I also have access to more moving spot lights, haze machines, and various other wash lights. All run with Chamsys MagicQ software. It’s not much, but it’s great for the small/medium sized parties I do. Of course, I plan to invest a lot more into my rig and build it into something much, much bigger. But for right now, I’m just taking it one step at a time.
Personally speaking, I feel like the lighting and mobile DJ companies on the island are lazy and don’t do very good jobs at lighting. I still have yet to see anybody fully utilize software DMX on their shows. Most everything I see out here is set it and forget it. It bugs me more than it really should. My plan is to get really good at programming shows so I can start to take lighting to the next level locally. Hopefully to the point where I can program some shows for small local festivals and concerts.
Hit me up if you’re interested. I’ve got an event coming up real soon (less than one weeks time) that I could possibly use your help with. It would be a great time for us to meet, talk shop, and to see if we could work something out that benefits the both of us. Email me at djneekz@gmail.com
Looking forward to hearing back from you! Aloha
July 9, 2015 at 4:27 am #2222061Danny P
ParticipantThat’s a lot of reading above but let me add my 2 cents. I like the idea and would probably use your services especially a year ago when I didn’t have a light setup. My suggestion would be to not do the second event free thing. It will just postpone you making money. Also I would increase the amount you’re charging a bit. Like double it. Those lights aren’t cheap (at least in my tax bracket) and you don’t want to sell yourself short. Try getting into some wedding gigs and maybe use both light stands and you can spread them out more. That’s just my thoughts on the matter take them as you will.
July 10, 2015 at 8:47 am #2222661Lamid45G
ParticipantI actually work together with a guy that owns an LED video wall…
Hey Chuck im interested in those LED Video wall, cared to elaborate a little maybe in a new topic ? what kind of setup and stuff? IF you dont mind that is
July 13, 2015 at 4:47 am #2223621ScottoRobotto
ParticipantI’ve been scaling back free shows to only people doing weekly gigs, I’m willing to forgo money for two shows if it means I’m going to be paid by them four times a month for the foreseeable future. I’ve stopped offering it to bands because they play too infrequently and I’m starting to pick them up when I do lighting for other bands shows so they have a chance to see me work.
I’ve very reluctant to increase my base prices too much more because for a lot of these bands my rates are as big a cut as most of the band members are getting. Most of these bands are putting on free shows and getting paid a little by the bar with a cut of sales. It’s not particularly lucrative but it is bread and butter work.
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